Sorority Parents Blog

Leslie - 01/19/11 @ 7:35 am

My niece went through this rush and had a great experience. She went to the maximum three preference parties of houses she loved and ended up where she wanted to be. However, several of her friends ended up with nothing at all despite attending preference parties. These girls are not alone. We were told that 200 girls who attended preference parties did not receive bids and that a total of nearly 800 girls who began rush stopped or were dropped by the end. I understand the bed total quota, but you must be kidding. I am Greek, and we were thrilled to have as many people as possible involved in the Greek system. The reasons for that are endless. The current system at IU turns away almost half of the young women interested in participating in Greek life. It’s a travesty for the system and all these young women. At bid night, the girls who attended preference parties yet received no bid were told at the same time the other girls in their dorms received their bids, squealing and celebrating in the surrounding rooms. You can imagine how awful this scene was. My niece felt terribly guilty and didn’t know what to say to people. This has left these girls to try to rethink their whole college experience. One has left school and transferred out as she has always wanted Greek life to be part of her college years. It is a sad, insensitive situation that Panhellenic needs to address immediately. If IU is the only school in the country that uses this system, perhaps something’s wrong with it. It needs to change! It’s absolutely ridiculous. My niece isn’t so sure she wants to continue because she is astounded that girls could attend preference parties and then be left out and left to watch the girls who got in. It feels bad from the beginning. Honestly, being Greek myself, I am astounded at this system and surprised that the situation is allowed to continue as it appears to have been going on like this for awhile.

Donna - 01/30/11 @ 7:49 pm

I am totally shocked at this situation which needs immediate attention, to put it mildly. They need more sororities if the numbers described are anywhere near valid. I am Greek and am surprised that this situation has not been remedied. The school bears some responibililty here. Parents do not want to pay to send their daughters for these experiences.

Leslie (a different one!) - 02/01/11 @ 5:34 am

As crazy as this system seems, it is really what they’re stuck with. There are MANY NPC sororities that would like to join the IU sorority system but the limited land on which to build houses (and at IU they’re not big, they’re mammoth) prevents it. If you’d like this scenario to change for your daughter, pressure the campus to open up more land for sororities. That is really the only alternative. There is easily enough interest in 1 even 2 new chapters to go on campus and be successful, but at IU, an unhoused sorority is a recipe for failure and no NPC sorority would want to risk the money or their reputations for a colony that was doomed to fail.

It saddens me to think there are young women who aren’t going to be able to have the lifelong connections I, as a sorority woman, have had for the last 30 years, and I’d love to see IU be a large and very welcoming Greek system.

Kathy - 02/03/11 @ 7:50 am

Thanks for all your comments. My daughter attends IU and as the 1st Leslie mentioned my daughter was one of the girls who had what was perceived to be a perfect rush – invited back to each house throughout the process and had 3 preferences for final bid night. It all seemed to be going well, until she was told by her Rho Gamma that she doesnt know what happen, but she didnt have a bid – her Rho Gamma was shaking and crying as much as my daughter. It was one of my worst phone calls from my daughter. As she said, I will never forget this night even when I am 80, and this night was as important to me as my wedding night. It is heartbreaking. And this is a girl that has a 3.85, Cheerleader for 4 years (captain for 2), works at a summer camp for the entire summer for the last 6 years, student council, National Honor Society, Dance Marathon leader at her high school, and various other activities and community service. She is the picture of what a sorority girl is. She choose IU over other schools for its Greek life. I dont know what happen but it has changed her College experience. Maybe someone can help me understand. She wants to rush again next year, but what can she do differently, what did she do wrong? I dont want her to go through the process again and have the same results. I really hope someone can enlighten me and offer suggestions. She really wants to be in a sorority! Thank you.

Chris - 02/04/11 @ 3:43 pm

Kathy, I know what you’re talking about. My daughter also attended three preference parties–at houses she loved–and yet received no bid. She was absolutley devastated and shocked. So was I and everyone I know. They were shocked at my daughter’s situation, but equally shocked that this goes on at IU. How could Panhel allow this situation to continue? Where I went to school, every girl that attended preference round received a bid–and I’ve learned this is not an uncommon practice as I’ve researched this mess. If you’re not going to issue them a bid, don’t invite them to a preference party. It is truly the most insensitive system I have heard of or read about anywhere–and I’ve been reading all I can. My daughter was then told by her Rho Gamma to try to involve herself elsewhere in the university, which just isn’t the same, and every girl there knows it. She was also told that the houses don’t generally recruit sophomores. Great. Oh, and her Rho Gamma failed to tell her to sign up for informal recruitment; luckily, another girl who was dropped after preference round found it on the Panhel website. But of course, the girls have no idea who is doing informal rush or when it might be or when it is over. So again, they are strung along still hoping….This is really a horrible situation when you consider the number of freshmen girls and the number of them who participate in formal recruitment and the number who are turned away even after the preference round. If the University’s Panhellenic Council won’t change the quota system to accommodate the number of young women who are eager and eligible for this college experience, then NPC needs to step in and help correct the situation. Obviously, the bed quota system is completely antiquated. To determine the number of bids by how many beds there are in the sleeping dorm rather than by how many wonderful young women register for recruitment AND make grades is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. Colonization is far away–everyone knows this; it is ridiculous to suggest it as a viable option for these girls. Panhel, be it local or national, needs to require these houses to adopt a modern quota system to accommodate their recruitment numbers, allowing members to live outside of the house if need be–especially seniors. When I was a senior, I WANTED to live out of the house. With 19 houses, accommodating the 200 girls who were left out after the preference round wouldn’t be too hard! With the way it has been handled at IU so far, I can’t imagine they will do the right thing though. I wish my daughter had chosen somewhere else to go to school. My sisters, cousins, mother, aunts, and step mother are all sorority alums. My daugher has ALWAYS wanted this to be part of her college experience, and we have wanted it for her. Now, she has been left completely knocked off her feet and insecure at such a transitional part of her life. The plans she has had for college for years are suddenly all gone. I truly wish that the IUPC would make an effort this spring to recruit the girls they dismissed after the preference round–especially those who registered for informal rush. The whole system is missing out by not offering these girls bids. God knows they already have apartment contracts signed for next year, so the chapters won’t have to worry about housing them. Alas. If nothing else, NPC needs to step in. We are all watching to see if they step up….

Kathy - 02/04/11 @ 7:26 pm

Hi Chris, I think you and I should connect. We obviously have wonderful daughters that might want to be friends. Can you email me at kathyb1216@sbcglobal.net

Donna - 02/05/11 @ 4:15 pm

Get the word out. Girls be warned. There are too many other places to go to school. You may want to stay away from this school. We all know the advice about getting in another activity when you didn’t get a bid just won’t work. If enough parents complain, something will be done.

npc - 02/08/11 @ 10:30 am

NPC appreciates your concerns and is sorry to hear about the experiences some women have on this campus. As mentioned, this is the only campus in the country that uses this kind of system in determining quota. Generally, quota is based off of the number of women that sign their Membership Recruitment Acceptance Binding Agreements and the number of chapters participating in the recruitment process, regardless if housing is or is not involved.

This is an issue and discussion item the National Panhellenic Conference and its delegates continue to have with their chapter officers and chapter advisors at IU on a regular basis. The campus is currently looking at extension to bring on an additional sorority(ies).

Leslie (yet another one!) - 03/30/11 @ 2:53 pm

I don’t understand why membership is limited to the number of beds for the next year. Is there some sort of rule that a sorority girl MUST live in the house and not a dorm? or what if an upperclassman wants to live in an apartment, is this not allowed on this campus?

seems like something is broken and I hope that NPC is able to fix the situation

sela - 04/12/11 @ 10:04 am

As crazy as this system seems, it is a long established part of the culture at IU. The women currently active in the chapters like things the way they are, as anyone does at that age, and it’s crazy to expect 18-21 year olds to see a bigger picture when they are in the thick of it. The only way it is going to change is by force – either from the school administration or from NPC groups withdrawing their chapters if the school does not change to the quota/total system.

The administration isn’t going to force change, because they really don’t want the Greek system to grow any more (which they know it would if quota/total was implemented – if that happened IU could probably support all 26 NPC groups). Not only that, there are alums who would throw a fit (“what kind of sisterhood is it with 300 people in a chapter? how can you have sisterhood when you don’t live together?” etc etc) and the last thing IU wants to do is mess with alum donations. They are also refusing to guarantee land or housing to any NPC group that colonizes there (which is standard practice at most schools of this size, even those who don’t have the bed quota system).

NPC groups aren’t going to withdraw their chapters either – yes they all hate this system because it severely hamstrings them when they could be taking many more members – but better to be in it than out of it. They, too, would have alums throwing a fit.

So unless some sort of huge culture shift happens, this is what they’re stuck with.

Tracy - 08/20/11 @ 3:23 pm

Washington State University is using this system this year and it os a total nightmare. Tomorrow is Pledge Day and I am sick waiting. The girls were told that of the 850 rushing, only 400 will get in. This has been the worst experience and it is destroying my daughter’s self-esteem. She told me it feels like middle school.

npc - 08/23/11 @ 7:33 am

Washington State University did not use a bed quota this year; their recruitment followed the normal three-invitational process. Quota was 45 for each of the 14 NPC chapters on the campus, and 628 women were placed in recruitment which is 82% of those that began the recruitment process. This percentage is also the average placement percentage for the country.

We are sorry for the angst these rumors caused any potential new member or parent. Indiana University is the only campus in the country that uses a bed quota system.

Tracy - 08/23/11 @ 8:54 am

I apologize for my post. I was going off information my daughter was hearing. It was a very stressful week. She ended up in a sorority she really is loving and she is so happy. I wish the process would have been made more clear to the girls so this kind of anxiety could have been avoided. Thank you for clearing things up

Chris - 12/09/11 @ 5:04 am

The uniqueness of the IU sorority system is what makes it so incrediby strong. Operating on the bed quota system insures that every girl who pledges gets to live in the chapter house for remainder of her college career. Believe it or not, most all girls who join a house WANT to live there. They don’t want to pledge and then have to live somewhere else – it defeats the whole purpose of this experience – and I should know as I am an alumni of many years ago who would never have had the same experience if I had not lived under the same roof with 80 other girls for three years

While not receiving a bid would be quite difficult, it is the nature of life. It is no different than not being selected to a high school athletic team or not getting the job after you had a great interview. All of these experiences are disappointing but you must teach your daughter(s)that no matter how great they are, sometimes we don’t get what we want.

It is not the university’s fault – it actually is nobody’s fault. There are just only so many spots to fill.

Susan - 12/15/11 @ 11:40 am

In response to Chris’s comment, are you joking? These are not athletic teams in which it depends on your athletic ability. These are not job interviews. These are 18 year old girls who want to join a sorority, to fit in, participate, and contribute. The cavalier attitude of just teaching the girls to live with disappointment could only come from someone who didn’t experience it. I am an alum myself,from another school, and very few of my sisters still wanted to live in as seniors. Many schools have very strong Greek systems without a bed quota; hopefully there is much more that makes IU’s system strong. Regardless of a live in/live out situation, the number of girls excluded from the Greek system at IU is appalling. Apparently, IU panhellenic needs expansion, and it needs the support of the university to have houses. The reality is that without houses, colonies have trouble competing and then expansion risks failure. I hope I never have to tell my daughter she just didn’t measure up, it just didn’t work out, it’s the nature of things. Really?

Donna - 12/22/11 @ 10:47 am

Responding to Chris’ comment, I don’t see the comparison between not getting a bid and not making an athletic team. The fact is that this school does not have enough sororities. Getting a bid, or not getting a bid, as we all know, can depend on a variety of things : not having a good friend in a sorority on the campus is just one important thing but there are others. Legacies often enter into the picture. Telling your daughter that she’s not good enough and to get over is cruel and also inaccurate. I am Greek and my daughter is also Greek, different sororities. Indiana needs to make some changes.

Nancy - 01/07/12 @ 11:07 am

My daughter is in the midest of rush at IU and I received the heartbreaking call this morning that she didn’t receive invites from her favorites. She is a double legacy of one of the houses that dropped her today. Just heartbreaking. She too has a strong GPA, was a cheerleader and excelled in her school community. I don’t have the heart to tell her that even if she gets invited to preference, she may not receive a bid. IU really needs to change their system. I can see her wanting to leave IU if the rest of Rush falls through. Mutual system? I would have to say IU is exclusively one-sided.Simply heartbreaking.

Susan - 01/07/12 @ 12:24 pm

My daughter is in the recruitment process right now and after reading some of the information about how competitive the process is, I find myself wondering if I did the right thing in encouraging her to rush. Her fear is that if she doesn’t get a bid, but all of her friends do, where will that leave her with regard to housing and friendship. I absolutely know that sorority life isn’t everything, but when your college exerience has so far been predicated by the friendships and connections you have already made…this will definitely knock the wind out of your sails. Whether or not my daughter gets in, I think the system needs to be improved. As was mentioned previously by others, my daughter was very active in high school with various activities from cheerleading to sports teams to student council to Honor Society. She has also always had gobs of friends, yet after reading and hearing a couple of horror stories,it makes me wonder if she will be one of the “200″ that don’t make it. She got 5 invites for the “8 Round”…not sure how many is “normal”. I will be glad for her when this is over. I did sorority in college and it was nothing like this! She seems fairly positive about the process so far and I have always told my kids there are never “guarantees’ with anything, but I still wonder.

Susan - 01/08/12 @ 11:54 am

This is the Susan who posted yesterday (01/07/2012. I wanted to post an update to hopefully help provide some perspective on this. My daughter got her 3 preferred houses back on her list for the Preference parties today, but 2 of her best friends did not fare so well and I just feel awful. In the second invite round her friends both had more invites than my daughter, one had the maximum of 8, the second had 7 and my daughter got 5. I would have thought my daughter would have less opportunity to get what she wanted in this preference round, but who knows why, it didn’t happen that way. Neither of the other girls got any of there preferences. However, as I told my kid yesterday. What ever house you would be invited to will become home and you will make special friendships. I hope they all end up with a house, but the whole system seems incredibly arbitrary.

Janney - 01/08/12 @ 5:39 pm

Here we go again!
It was 30 years ago that I participated in recruitment (rush back then)at Indiana University. The memories are raw–even more so today. I was an IU sorority “reject.” I went through the entirety of rush and did not get a bid. I remember feeling inadequate, demeaned, worthless–I could go on, but I am sure you get the picture. I loved IU–but there was always something missing for me. I spent 4 years longingly looking at the chapter houses on third street and on the extension, and wished I had belonged. I still ask myself “what did I do wrong,” “why not me” “what did they have that I didn’t.” I always assumed it would be different for my daughter. She is beautiful, engaging, has a great GPA, ton of activities–no-brainer right? Not only would she get a bid, but she would have all kinds of choices. She is a double legacy at one chapter, single legacy at several others, and had tons of recs–she “prepared.” Yet, at 11am this morning she called me with the same questions I asked myself 30 years ago. She went through 20 party, was invited to the max of 14 houses, went through 14 party and was invited to the max of 8 houses. She had a great time–she was ecstatic and clicked with so many of the members–she kept an open mind, a positive attitude, and she thought she would be safe. Today was preference round. To her absolute shock and embarrassment she received one invite. She knows the bid odds are against her–she is absolutely devastated. At IU it is usually a one and done deal. Very few sophomores have the opportunity to pledge and informal rush simply does not exist as most houses are at capacity after rush. There are SO many stories like hers at IU, and I can tell you that it is not like that anywhere else. I am in student affairs for another large public University. The PNC at our institution is very proactive in enabling the majority of young women who want to join Greek life to have that opportunity. If they make it to preference night–and all but a very, very, slim majority do, there is a place for them in one of the campus chapters. It may not be their first, or even second choice, but they have a choice. Let’s be honest–at IU recruitment is NOT a mutual selection process–and while the chapters and panhel may have the best of intentions, the negative impact of the process there is lifelong. My daughter is one of 7 girls. Believe me-she has experienced disappointment, not been coddled, and is a strong young women–but now she too will go through her years at IU wondering “why not me.” What a travesty that system is.

Jane Doe - 01/09/12 @ 1:29 pm

I am a sophomore here at Indiana University and I went through the recruitment process this year and last year. So many girls have sisters or best friends in the sororities. Others have gone to numerous parties where they interact with these girls. And some even have boyfriends in fraternities who put in a “special word.” So in reality, there is no chance for the women who don’t have “special” connections. In a lot of cases even legacies don’t have a chance! I am a legacy of one sorority and had numerous recommendation letters to others. I got every house back that I wanted for 14 and 8 party and then got nothing back for 3 party. They say being a sophomore has no effect on whether you get in a house or not, but it most certainly does. At almost every house I went to, that’s the first question they asked. I have a very high GPA, and I hold executive positions in nearly every activity I am involved in on campus. I have also wondered what I did wrong, and feel that I will miss out on something these next 2 and 1/2 years. I felt that I really did have something to offer to the sorority houses I visited. I have chosen to hold my head high and believe that there are better things coming for me. I wish all the girls who got rejected could come together and form some kind of group so that they realize they are definitely NOT alone. I wish there was something I could do, personally, to change the way IU does things, but sadly I don’t think anyone will listen. I’d be happy to tell any parent/student and even NPC about my experience and the things I heard and witnessed. To any parents reading this that have discouraged daughters, please let them know they are not alone and they did their best! They’re all beautiful, smart and talented young women!

Susan - 01/09/12 @ 5:15 pm

Hi Janney and Jane Doe, this is Susan (the one that left the comments directly above). I so feel for you guys. I just found out that my daughter did get the house of her choice, but I absolutely realize now how arbitrary the system is. I have had a bird’s eye view of how recruitment was done and it has been heart-wrenching to watch. You might think my daughter is thrilled, but her joy has been tempered by knowing some of her friends didn’t get in and how easily it could have been her.It almost seems like a lottery. More chapters seems to be a good place to start. My husband felt the whole process was like our daughter being back in middle school. I don’t fault the sororities…there just doing things how it was done for them,but somebody needs to take a serious look at this, as I think it severely tempers the college experience. I know we don’t all get what we want, but this deck seems to be severely stacked against everyone, but a lucky minority.

Stacy - 01/11/12 @ 8:28 am

I wasn’t sure where to post my comments regarding Greek rush week at IU so I thought letting other parents know the truth about rush at IU or who have already experienced rush at IU would be a good place to start. I wish I had read the blog comments before last week, when my girls spent five days on an emotional roller coaster, going from house to house.

I have two daughters who are now freshmen at IU. Both were beyond exhilarated to be rushing a sorority. It was always their “dream” to be a part of Greek life at IU. For the entire first semester, they kept telling themselves that as soon as they found a sorority, they would have a built-in support group, friendships that would last forever, and more importantly, a way to make a big school like IU, more comfortable socially.

After rushing 19 sororities, then 14 sororities, then 8 sororities and finally one sorority, last week was filled with an incredible amount of anxiety and pressure to sound smart, look pretty, be interesting and most of all, look like you belong in one of the sorority houses. As the list whittles down to the house that wants you (or hopefully wants you), and you make your final appearance on Sunday afternoon, the girls are then made to wait an entire day to hear back with their bids. Why wait this long? My daughters actually did not attend class on Monday night to wait in the their rooms for the knock on the door. The formal bid comes at 5 pm at which time an envelope arrives (or doesn’t arrive) at your dorm room. Girls are screaming and crying – for those that were fortunate enough to have been selected to the sorority of their choice, or any sorority for that matter, life is looking pretty good. On the flip side, one of my daughters received no bid, which meant there was no envelope. She was forced to watch as girls shriek up and down the hallways of the dorm. Her roommate was given a bid for the same sorority that she had hoped to be a part of, and watched as they decorated her room with balloons and streamers from the sorority that rejected her. This is just unusually cruel and punishing behavior, to watch your roommate being “crowned” while you sit rejected.

After several hours worth of calls, we finally were able to calm my daughter down, and get some friends to her room to help her get through the evening. Yesterday was much better, but again, the dorms empty at 7 pm, as the next two weeks are filled with parties and more parties.

Indiana University is the only school I know of that only accepts pledges based on the number of beds they have in a sorority. Why? I spoke with a senior representative from the Panhellenic Association last night. She told me that this is what the Greek community wants at IU. Control over the information that these new girls receive and the ability to educate them properly. Something that couldn’t happen with a large pledge class. REALLY? How would they even know that if this has never been done. There are no large pledge classes at IU. It’s not done. When I asked her if the alternative is turning away hundreds of smart, talented and engaging young women that would have a lot to offer a sorority she did not have an answer for me. Better to disappoint that to change the system.

Don’t you think these girls should know the odds of them being accepted prior to rushing all week long? Why not tell them exactly how many beds are open in each sorority? Why would IU continue to keep a quota if so many girls want to be part of Greek life?

I believe the biggest mistake as far as rush is concerned is underestimating how serious the blow is to an 18 year old girl who so badly wants to be accepted by a sorority house. Being rejected by your peers makes your insides hurt. It made my insides hurt. Not just for my daughter, but for all those girls that were left on their beds on Monday night, with no where to go, but to their parents voice on the phone. There were no adult counselors in the dorm to help any of these girls. There was no one I could call to help them get through one of the worst nights they have ever experienced. IU needs to have professional counselors in the dorms the night the bids are given out.

IU has a serious problem with their Greek system. They need to reconsider the entire process including how girls are reviewed, the information they receive, and give them realistic expectations ….. don’t give them hope where there is none. What IU does is take a bad situation and make it even worse in their delivering of the bid process.

LJ - 01/11/12 @ 12:33 pm

My freshman daughter chose to go out of state to school but most of her dearest friends chose to go to IU. She received so many text messages that she spent much of her Monday night calling her friends to offer condolences because it truly was a death for each of these phenomenal young women who were not selected. It tore her up to know that her rush is beginning this weekend but since her university does not have the “bed quota” system that she will most likely not have to endure what her friends have gone through. She will not share her joy with her friends because of their hurt.

Thank you Stacy for the suggestion of adult counselors to be on hand. I cannot imagine the depth of the hurt of watching longingly as the sorority went into the dorm room to decorate for one but not the other roommate. The sorority had to have known, and if not, why not?

As a Hoosier, I feel like I should do something to help fight for these girls even though I am not directly affected. Any suggestions?

Lynn - 01/11/12 @ 3:15 pm

These stories are so familiar, as my daughter has just experienced the horrors of IU rush as well. As Stacey said “It makes your insides hurt.” This goes for mom and daughter. All this in the name of sisterhood! In reality, it is sisterhood for a chosen few and exclusion and alienation for far too many! IU PanHellenic, you need to take a look at the larger picture.

Susan - 01/11/12 @ 7:53 pm

It almost makes me sick to hear some of these stories. One sister getting a bid and the other no bid, awful. But the worst part of this is sorority girls decorating the rooms of those who receive bids with little regard as to whether or not the other girl in the room got a bid or not.
Perhaps no one can predict the outcome of 2 sisters vying for bids to sororities, but it is surely insensitive to decorate dorm rooms. The party atmosphere should be saved for the house.

Judy - 01/12/12 @ 3:21 pm

Before you make a judgment against what I am about to write – my heart also breaks for anyone that feels sad, but I write the following in an effort to empower you all, no other reason….

1. It is the job of the STUDENT to put their academics first. Someone said their child missed the first day of classes because they were too nervous about their sorority bid? What sorority would want this kind of person? That is insane. Why are you at IU, to party? What about your…E D U C A T I O N?

2. How could you blame the school for and you and your child to now know their odds. It’s called – do your research. Ask your questions. This is your job to get your questions answered.

3. Have you ever been on a job interview? Has your child ever had a job? You know, they interview 50 people or even 100 for ONE desk.

4. All of you should read the newspaper today and read about people with real problems, no food, no shelter, no safety, and no money. Woman that get raped, beaten and have no education, that’s real life. Why would anyone leave a school and a chance of education over a sorority? I can’t imagine!!!

5. The girls that did not get bids, that don’t run away from their problems and find a better way and don’t let these “houses” and people that don’t even know them determine their happiness will be the real winners. They’ll be set for life!!

AGAIN, my heart does breaks for anyone that feels sad, but I wrote the above in an effort to empower you all, no other reason….

MOVE ON

BE STRONG

YOU AND YOUR GIRLS ARE BETTER FOR IT!

Kathy - 01/12/12 @ 5:23 pm

I agree with all of your comments.
My daughter has gone through recruitment now twice and has been rejected both years.
She said last year that she wished she went to her #2 choice school that has fall rush and where it is a lot easier to get into houses.
It does not seem fair that the women find out in their dorm and get their rooms decorated in front of others who did not make it.
There has to be a better way.
I drove around Jordan Street after dropping my daughter off last week and was impressed by the enormity of the houses. If they didn’t make it mandatory for Juniors and Seniors to live in the houses, more girls could be in their sororities.
Could they also think of changing recruitment to the Fall. This way, if girls want to transfer to a school that has sorority recruitment, they can do it in January.
I loved being in a sorority, but living in the house for one year was enough.
Something has to change. 800 girls released or dropping out is too huge a number for this great school.
I’m sorry for all of our daughters who are not experiencing all of this fun this week.

Anonymous - 01/12/12 @ 6:21 pm

I am a sophomore at IU and I went through formal recruitment last year. I always wanted to be in a sorority since basically every single woman in my family was part of the greek system. Growing up it was almost just assumed that one day I would be able to be a part of what they had all experienced throughout their college years.

I went into formal recruitment not even thinking twice about how there was a possibility that I would not get a bid, everyone had told me I was great. I had all the recommendations anyone could think of! Then once recruitment started I had essentially what one would call the “perfect” recruitment, which means I got almost every house I wanted back for almost every round, it was great!

Then 3 party came and my Rho Gamma told me this is the round when you will find out what is for you and which house you are meant to be in. I thought I had found this in one of the houses and I was 95% positive I was going to get a bid at 5 when they handed them out. That night my Rho Gamma came to my room and she did not have a bid for me.

I dont think I actually believed her at first because I thought there is no way this is possible, but sadly it was. All of the friends I had made were on my floor so they were all getting their bids, jumping around getting super excited and all I could do was say how happy I was for them. Fortunately one of my friends did not participate in recruitment so I had someone to live with this year!

The thought about participating as a sophomore came up, but I could not do it, I could not go through not getting a bid again, and as a sophomore the chances were even higher that I would not get anything.

On the brighter side to all of this, all of my friends on my floor are still my friends and they are still my best friends, in fact they’d rather hangout with me then with their group of sorority friends.

My best advice for someone who has gone through recruitment and not gotten a bid is to stick it out. Broaden your horizons, there is always next year, and if you hangout with your friends in sororities enough and make friends at the different houses you will have people pulling for you and that is what you need to get into a house. As for the parties I have never had any trouble ever getting into a frat house, they do not care what house you are in or if you are in it or not.

Also there is another house coming next year called Alpha Sigma Alpha that me and some of my friends are thinking about doing. I know it doesn’t really mean much, because there is no house, I assure you that if I go for it, I will be going on Panhellenic and I will be trying my hardest to change the system, so no girl will ever have to feel the way that I did on bid day!

S Stein - 01/12/12 @ 6:26 pm

So, I am in the process of sending a care package to my daughter a IU who has just gone through this excruciating process. She is one of the lucky girls who got into the sorority she really wanted to be in, but from a mother’s point of view it was really emotional. I didn’t know the IU philosophy, but I’m not surprised. This is a very BIG SCHOOL and Greek Life is HUGE, but there are 40,000 kids at the school so it can’t be the only thing it’s known for, but when your daughter doesn’t get into a sorority, it becomes the biggest thing that happens at school. My daughter told me some girls are already talking about transferring. Since GREEK LIFE is so big, there should be more sorority houses agreed…someone needs to talk to administration, if they will ever answer the phonel.

Nancy - 01/12/12 @ 8:11 pm

shame shame shame indiana university.

IU /sorority alum 1980 - 01/12/12 @ 9:42 pm

Once the “bed quota” is filled, why not let the remainder of the girls join a house… but live out (dorms, apartments, houses etc.) The “live outs” would have to make their own living arrangements. Their chapter dues would be significatntly reduced. However, the chapater houses would profit from increased revenue, and the “live out” girls would profit by paricipating in the house functions. “Live outs” could potentially move into the house at a later date. The only problem with this would be the girls that don’t get to live in the house would maybe feel a little “inferior” to some extent, but I think they would still feel better than being offerred nothing at all…They would form friendships and bonds and participate in all that the sorority has to offer. Chapter meetings might be a little crowded, but I really don’t see why this wouldn’t work. Choosing who lives in or out might be a little tricky, but perhaps GPA could be looked at as a deciding factor.
I think IU sorority recruitment is terrible, and after reading some of these stories, I feel that this system needs to change..So start here..anyone else have any thoughts or ideas?

Sharon - 01/12/12 @ 10:20 pm

This is truly appalling, just sickening. There is absolutely no excuse for the way things are handled at IU; I’ve read thread after thread covering year after year of people disgusted with IU’s recruitment, yet it seems that little has gotten done despite these years of complaints. This same scenario is repeated again and again and no one in charge changes it despite all the outrage. IU has a bit of a reputation for its sororities and recruitment, which is not really very flattering. Colonies are a great start, but I would think they really, truly need houses to compete, and it’s not helping all these girls now, today, who want this to be part of their college experience. Bed quota is obviously inefficient and antiquated on a campus with 1500 plus girls going through recruitment. It’s a broken system when it fails half of the women registering for recruitment. Granted some drop out voluntarily or because of grades, but I doubt it’s that many. The system may have worked in the past when the student body was smaller, but any system that excludes (or leaves out, or whatever euphemism you want to use) so many women eager to participate is a failure. Honestly, for the life of me, I cannot wrap my mind around this system. Apparently the young women who are in houses do not see the misery left behind for the girls who are left out. Maybe if on bid night they actually spent time in the dorms with the girls left out or had best friends or sisters who were shut out, they would think more about their system and be willing to change it and allow it to evolve to meet the needs of their university. How can they be so clueless? How can the advisors be so detached? And I don’t believe for a second that all members living in is what makes the system at IU so special. Come on, seriously? I am so sorry for these girls. I agree, for shame IU.

m.offerle - 01/13/12 @ 8:29 am

IU /sorority alum 1980 – 01/12/12 @ 9:42 pm

Once the “bed quota” is filled, why not let the remainder of the girls join a house… but live out (dorms, apartments, houses etc.) The “live outs” would have to make their own living arrangements. Their chapter dues would be significantly reduced. However, the chapter houses would profit from increased revenue, and the “live out” girls would profit by participating in the house functions. “Live outs” could potentially move into the house at a later date. The only problem with this would be the girls that don’t get to live in the house would maybe feel a little “inferior” to some extent, but I think they would still feel better than being offered nothing at all…They would form friendships and bonds and participate in all that the sorority has to offer. Chapter meetings might be a little crowded, but I really don’t see why this wouldn’t work. Choosing who lives in or out might be a little tricky, but perhaps GPA could be looked at as a deciding factor.
I think IU sorority recruitment is terrible, and after reading some of these stories, I feel that this system needs to change..So start here..anyone else have any thoughts or ideas?)

SadMom - 01/13/12 @ 8:41 am

My daughter was a sophomore who went through the sorority recruitment process AGAIN. She has a good GPA, she is involved in many activities at IU, she was involved in many activites in high school, also. She is beautiful, talented and has a lot to offer a sorority. She was told to try again. Why? To learn to be rejected twice? Would the process make her have more character? Why would they not tell her that her odds were slim to none? Why offer encouragement when it is a mute point? If I had known that IU was the only college in the country that used the antiquated bed-quota system, I would have encouraged my daughter to attend her other college choice. I would not have had her participate in recruitment again either! She received 13 houses back, then 6, then nothing. She had a number of recommendations from family and friends. Plus, being a sophomore she had many friends in the various houses and many guy friends in the fraternities. Her father was in a fraternity at IU and had many good memories. I even heard that many legacies were cut. There is something very wrong with this system! I have 3 more children that I will encourage to attend college elsewhere if the system is not changed. I hope that many parents and potential sorority girls see these comments and know what they are getting themselves into.

Donna - 01/13/12 @ 1:00 pm

I do agree with some of what Judy said yesterday; however the situation at IU is not typical. Yes, in probably every college that has sororities, there are girls left out but the bed quota system does not rule or even have an effect at most schools. Also at the great majority of schools, girls who attend pref parties will get a bid, though it may not be their first choice.
The Greek situation at IU, in my opinion, does have a more positive solution. The school needs to solve the problem. Start with more sororities.

lookingahead&concerned - 01/13/12 @ 2:13 pm

My daughter is a senior in highschool and is excited about recruitment next year. After reading this, I feel terribly nervous and unsure about her getting her hopes up.
For those of you who’ve gone through it with your daughters, any advice? Why did your daughters feel they didn’t get in? Any insights?

Susan - 01/13/12 @ 3:09 pm

Yes, more sororites asap. And, the university needs to help them with housing. Without houses, I think it’s an uphill battle to compete and survive in the IU Greek environment. It’s amazing girls who will work to establish these new chapters. I applaud them and wish them all the best of luck.

Terri - 01/13/12 @ 8:21 pm

I too am a “victim” of the IU recruitment system. 25 years ago I was left without a bid on bid day. I moved on, but it was difficult. I was isolated, and never felt truly part of anything in college. I have a great life, but I know that had I had an opportunity to be in a sorority I would have had a much fuller experience. I love my job, I have a wonderful family and am thankful everyday-but here’s the thing( and this is for Judy) even though I see “real problems” -it’s my job- what happened to me at IU still hurts. As a social worker I also know that this type of pain never goes away. It is not the same as rejection from a job interview or being cut from a sports team. There is no feedback, no logic, no skills to assess. These are 18 year old girls who have fragile self esteems and this is a minimization of who they are. If IU insists on continuing this process as they have for decades, they should at the very least be absolutely up front about the numbers. It is absolutely NOT the PNM’s responsibility to understand the intricacies of the process- it is the responsibility of campus Panhellenic to be forthcoming. And, i can tell you that this is absolutely not the way it is handled at other schools- I have two daughters who experienced a more humane process elsewhere.

Jane - 01/13/12 @ 11:34 pm

The process really is sickening. I had to drive down third street to get back to my apartment on bid night only to have the girls waiting for their new members pound on my car window and chant their songs. They had no way of knowing I was ultimately rejected from the recruitment process, but I felt as if they were making a mockery of me. There are girls in houses that have probably told me way more than they should, which is why I think it’s important that everyone knows the truth. It’s supposed to be a “fair” process and one of “mutual selection”, so Panhellenic should stick to these rules if they won’t even consider changing the process. Each and every house should be evaluated, maybe even by someone who has no direct connection to the houses or fraternity/sorority life. Once again I’m not here to bash anyone, just state my opinion. Also to those of you wondering whether or not to let your daughters participate in recruitment, I encourage you to let them make their own decisions. It really is an experience unlike any other. If they would happen to get into a house, they’ll have a great college experience. If not, they’ll still have a great college experience.

Judy - 01/14/12 @ 9:20 am

REALLY – it’s not the school that needs to change, it’s the people that need to understand that in life you DON’T always get what you want and you are NOT entitled to everything you want all the time whenever you want it.

IU stands for a quality education. In a world of more aggressive educational standards and the admissions being more competitive, the sorority system is secondary, or even much further down the list than that, much much further. IU has SO MORE to offer than who is in what sororiety. Really, who cares?

In this economy your girls can take this “free time” to:

get an internship

take an extra language

sit in on a course they would never have had the opportunity to do,

go to a basketball game

see a lecture

join a committee

or a club

Indiana University does NOT need to change anything, these girls AGAIN – NEED TO EMPOWER THEMSELVES and take this GIVEN opportunity as a gift to NOT belong to a judgmental group of giggling girls and find a better way and make themselves better for it and more prepared for a world with a sloping economy.

COME ON LADIES – IT’S 2012!!!!

CAPS - 01/14/12 @ 10:31 am

Not sure why the poster above is so flippant-perhaps she does not interact professionally with adolescents and young adults-or understand that sororities are not simply a social club-And that the residential college experience is indeed about more than academics. I work at IUB, and I offer some perspective. It is indeed a wonderful, unique environment. The campus is warm and welcoming, the opportunities are endless. I am an alum, my kids are all grads and i LOVE most things about this amazing place. That being said, I believe that administration absolutely recognizes that the current sorority recruitment process on this campus stands alone as the most competitive in the nation, and that the negative results for many young women are damaging in both tangible and intangible ways. IU absolutely wants to rectify this-but there are barriers and logistical challenges that make a solution very difficult. I counsel and care for young women everyday. They are strong, they are empowered, they are bright, they have a life of wonder ahead of them. That being said- here is the reality. This rejection is NOT ( again with all due respect to the last poster) ANYTHING like “not getting what you want.” It is akin to losing a piece of who you are-your identity-hopes, dreams, expectations. This all may sound dramatic, but it is a very real, and very normal response. When I speak to young women about this, the one commonality I hear is that they do not understand why they weren’t good enough. They are not focused on placement in a particular sorority, they are questioning who they are. It is OKAY to want it that bad, to think it that important. It is absolutely NORMAL to feel this way. These are 18 year olds. Sororities offer a sense of place, a structure, an identity that yes-Judy- it is perfectly appropriate to need and desire. There are many women- one of my daughters included, who never felt drawn to the idea of sisterhood. She was ABLE to find it in other places. On the other hand I have a daughter who truly needed and loved all that sorority life had to offer; and she has continued to be close with “sisters” throughout her life- every where she goes she has an automatic connection with someone- there is something amazing to be said for that. The system absolutely needs to be changed- while it is true that life throws curve balls and we learn from them, any young woman who meets Panhellenic criteria and sticks with the process should have the opportunity to find a home in the sorority community. Sororities were founded by EMPOWERED women who saw a need to find their own way, their own place. Other schools have figured out ways to provide this experience for those who see it as integral to their life- experience; IU should as well.

Sharon - 01/14/12 @ 1:47 pm

Judy, I understand what you’re saying, but a lot of these girls already go to basketball games, study hard and make terrific grades, have jobs and internships, belong to clubs, etc. etc. This is the only Greek system in the country that works this way leading to more exclusion than inclusion, which is unfortunate and unnecessary. I’m sure people realize that a sorority is just a component of their college years, not the reason to attend a university. This is a system that is excluding large numbers of young women because it is no longer equipped to handle the number of interested students at this university, which has grown and grown. It is 2012 and time for IU’s system to meet the interest of their students.

Susan - 01/14/12 @ 2:45 pm

Judy,
I question the vehemence of your position and wonder how a person with no reported connection or interest in the Greek system found this blog (or even cares)? Me thinks you protest too much! Nothing in life is guaranteed and I have definitely made that clear to my children, but we do all have goals and when they are not met we are disappointed. It is not about being “entitled” as you put it, but it is expressing concern about a system, which has many more young women who would like to partake if there were more options. Plain and simple: too many people too few houses. It’s not basketball where there are only so many who can play.
My daughter was one of the lucky ones who got her first choice, but many of her friends did not fare as well and I think that is sad. There is much more to the sorority experience than being a “giggling girl”. I loved my years in sorority and made life-long friendships that I still value. I am not an unempowered follower who would have been lost without sorority, but I feel it enhanced the college experience. My daughter is a pre-med major who, by the way, speaks 2 languages and volunteers regularly in programs that benefit children. She has a “life” but wanted this experience. I just wish every young woman who wanted to experience Greek life could. I know there are a few sororities that give all a bad name, but if you end up in the vast majority of them it is truly a great experience.

Stacy - 01/14/12 @ 8:12 pm

Clearly Judy’s comments were meant to get your attention through her “tough love” approach. There are many life lessons for any mom who just went through the IU recruitment week with their daughters and this blog should not be used by people to preach to us about the hardships or cruelties or the disappointments these young women will all face in life. All of us know what the “real world” is about Judy so your suggestions are frankly inconsequential and meaningless to what we are discussing.

There are clearly too many disappointed girls who have much to gain and a lot to offer IU’s broken Greek system. The entire process is heart wrenching for the girls who get bids and those who don’t. Leave the celebration out of the dorms. Let girls live off campus or wherever they want but forget the bed quota. It is antiquated and unnecessary. More than anything else, if IU is such a progressive and outstanding place of learning, then they will listen to our girls voices and those of the parents who are asking for CHANGE!

Judy - 01/15/12 @ 6:48 pm

I am from New York and I have a daughter who is a senior in High School who is considering IU for next college. She was already accepted. I am unsure if this is the school for her, not because she may not get into a sorority, but because the school culture puts so much importance on it. I would prefer a more academic environment for her. Having said that, I am certain that if she should choose IU, she will find her own. Right now it remains her first choice and she is well aware that Greek life for her may NOT happen. Ultimately, the decisions will be hers. However, should she not get accepted into a sorority, she will not just “quit” school as I understand several girls simply “left” school this year after not receiving a bid.

In any case, I do appreciate the comments here. I am overwhelmed with the genuine kindness and concern that everyone displays in their writing. I believe that is a “mid-western” culture and it makes me assured that if my daughter does attend IU, this warm feeling will be around her. It is one of the qualities we like in IU. It is something I am not so sure we would see in a NY school should she attend there and not get into a sorority. Maybe we would both grow should she attend IU!

Lyn - 01/15/12 @ 9:38 pm

My daughter also went through recruitment last week. She was so excited, and nervous. We went shopping and spent quite a bit of money to get the REQUIRED clothing and prepare her for the different parties. She was invited back to the full 14 houses, then 8, and also pref night. But no bids. She was devastated. She has a 3.5 GPA, is very pretty, and very outgoing. It has changed her entire college experience. I don’t know that she or I would EVER recommend that anyone go through the recruitment experience at IU. It was totally demoralizing.

Lynn - 01/16/12 @ 5:30 pm

I sent an email about my daughter’s recruitment experience to the person in charge of advising sororities and fraternities, Ms. Leslie Fasone, Assistant Director of Greek Life at IU. I also sent a copy of the email to Mr. H. Pete Goldsmith, Dean of Students. I sent them a link to this webpage as well. I would suggest others consider doing the same.

Andrea - 01/16/12 @ 10:59 pm

My daughter is in the same boat and just devastated, I was told it’s hard to get into a house at IU but this is ridiculous. My daughter actually chose IU based on it’s huge Greek System over her other options. If any of your daughters are looking for a roommate next year or know of anyone who is would you please respond to this and we can exchange emails. She is hoping to room with 2-3 others.

Susan - 01/17/12 @ 11:26 am

I think that’s great! They ought to know what happens and do something about it. To ignore it is inexcusable. I’d love to know what they have to say and what they are going to do about it right now, this semester. What will they do regarding these girls from this year and last year? I would also send a note to the NPC. They too can be an instrument of change for this system.

Andrea - 01/17/12 @ 3:06 pm

Dear NPC,
Meanwhile while bed quotas are being reviewed, hundreds of girls year after year are being shall we say left in the cold. And, this truly is something they will never get over. College life is yes about education but it is about finding a place for yourself and Greek life plays a huge part in that process especially at a school like IU. Right now there are hundreds of girls not only trying to figure out what they did wrong to not get a bid but who don’t know if there is a place for them there anymore without sorority life, and now they squandering to figure out who to live with and where to live next year before there truly isn’t a place for them. And, all this is based on bed count? What about the idea of Seniors not being allowed to live in Sororities, or additions being built onto some of these houses. The university needs to step in and help remedy this situation. Being a College student in this day and age is pressure enough but being a rejected one is unthinkable!!!

Susan - 01/17/12 @ 3:58 pm

Hi NPC,
I think it’s great that you all talk about change, but as I’ve looked over blog after blog and thread after thread covering year upon year of this mess, nothing has changed. It’s the same miserable story over and over again. What exactly needs to be done to get something accomplished for the young women at this university now? Is it letters to the university? Letters to IU’s Panhel? What can any of us do to help remedy this situation? This page is loaded with different ideas. Who has to push to implement them? Take a look at other large universities with big Greek systems and see how they do it. Just tell us what we can do to help.

Paula - 01/17/12 @ 5:20 pm

I too agree that NPC needs to step in and challenge and hopefully get Indiana to change their ways. I was a sorority member at another Big 10 school. Due to the large number of women going through recruitment (approx. 2000) we changed our ways to accommodate more women. It truly strengthened each house and made hundreds more women happy.

I was excited that my daughter was going to a Big 10 school with a large Greek system. I had no idea that Indiana operated on the bed quota system until right before recruitment began. My daughter is smart, pretty and very athletic. She was released from my house right after open house – 20 party. They did not even invite her to first parties which is against my sorority’s national rules. Our national office could only say they did not know why Indiana did this. Clearly Indiana operates on their own rules.

My daughter was invited back to 12 houses, then 6 then 3. Throughout the process she realized that recs did not matter as she was released from houses immediately. Also, she figured out that it hurt that she was from out of state and did not know women in the houses. She ended up with her second choice. She was just happy to receive a bid from a house she felt at home with. Her dorm floor did not fare well. Some women did not receive any bids for preference – 3 party. Others went through preference and did not receive a bid. She was so upset for everyone that she could not get excited. She could not believe how the Rho Gamma handled the rejection. She said that the Rho Gamma just told the women and left. She said it was so insensitive since her friends were clearly distraught.

I am appalled at this whole situation. We need to band together to make our voices heard!

jane - 01/17/12 @ 8:40 pm

After reading these very negative comments about Indiana University recruitment, I would like to commend IU Panhellenic and the individual chapter houses for all they do to make the recruitment process as fair as it can possibly be given such large numbers and a limited capacity for membership. No matter what university or greek system there will ALWAYS be girls who are disappointed in the outcome. The focus should be in counseling and preparing all of the girls who participate for a possible outcome that is not what they want or expected.

I had many conversations with my own daughter before she participated in recruitment and tried to prepare her for what could happen. I encouraged her to hope for the best but be prepared for the worst. We talked about “plan B” should recruitment not work out for her. She did not go into the process thinking that it would be the defining moment in her college career.

I believe in the sorority system at IU. I believe it is the strongest sorority system on any college campus BECAUSE of the way works. I was a part of it in the 1980’s, my parents in the 1950’s and my grandparents in the 1920’s. Through those years new chapter houses have been built, existing chapter houses have added on to their existing structures and some have developed senior live out policies all in an effort to include as many women as possible. To call this system “messed up” “antiquated and unnecessary” is unfair and said without a true knowledge and understanding of what the sorority system is all about.

Thank you Indiana University, NPC and IUPHA for your continued support and preservation of the century old Greek System at Indiana University and for your dedication to it’s continued success.

Andrea - 01/17/12 @ 9:57 pm

Judy,
You are way off base, most of these girls already do additional things. Life as a teenager/young adult in this day and age is challenging and extremely competitive, is it so wrong for a young lady to want to feel like they belong and fit in and have a place they can call home? I think not….you obviously have nothing better to do then to get involved where you have no business getting involved. Do you have kids? Have you ever been one? Have you ever felt rejection? I assume the answer is yes to at least one of those questions. Have some sympathy for these ladies who year after year have felt the disappointment of not feeling like they belong. Yes, they will move on but will they get over this, probably not.

Have a heart and keep your unsolicited advice to yourself. This is a real problem at this University and it needs real answers!!

npc - 01/18/12 @ 8:12 am

We appreciate the thoughts and concerns and suggestions expressed over the past week regarding the Indiana University (IU) recruitment process. As admitted, the IU Panhellenic system operates a unique system with each chapter setting its own Quota, based on projected open bed spaces for the next year. It is the ONLY campus in the United States that still remains on this system. It is a long-held belief of collegiate and alumnae members of this system that the experience of living together in a chapter house for three years is critical to one’s sorority experience; hence this practice remains in place, in spite of continued requests from the inter/national organizations and the National Panhellenic Conference for the chapters to make internal policy changes that would allow each chapter to have live-out members. Some chapters have adopted limited live-out policies for seniors, but unfortunately these policies are not sufficient to meet the demand of women wanting to pledge.

The National Panhellenic Conference continues to try to work with the collegiate and alumnae members of chapters in this system about this process and the overwhelming hurt caused by not opening up their system to meet the interest expressed by unaffiliated women on their campus. Because recruitment is a mutual selection process, not every woman expressing interest in the system may receive a bid, however if the campus would utilize the traditional Quota/Total system, there certainly would be an increased opportunity for placement of women.

Additionally, in effort to assist with placement, the campus opened for expansion and colonized a new NPC sorority this fall, Theta Phi Alpha. Alpha Sigma Alpha will be added in fall 2012.

Please know that the National Panhellenic Conference continues to hold discussions with leaders of the Panhellenic and local alumnae about this situation and will continue to try to find ways to improve this process. We encourage you to express your specific concerns and comments directly to the Indiana University Panhellenic at iupharec@gmail.com.

Susan - 01/18/12 @ 9:46 am

Hey Jane,

You might feel differently if it were your daughter who wasn’t placed. I’m glad the system worked for you in the past, but this is now, the system no longer accommodates the increased student body. Period. I lived in my sorority house for three years and couldn’t wait to move out as a senior. But, I was and still am incredibly close to my sisters. Our chapter was great and close too! This argument is absurd given the number of young women who cannot be placed because of bed quota. The existing houses need to adjust to accommodate the increased number of students AND the university needs to increase the number of sorority HOUSES, not just chapters. Seriously? Turning away hundreds of great girls every year because they can’t fit in the sleeping dorm? You must be joking. Again, you might feel the system isn’t adequate if your daughter was one of the ones left without a bid.

Andrea - 01/18/12 @ 12:26 pm

Just curious Jane, did your daughter go into the same chapter as you which she was a legacy to?

Susan - 01/18/12 @ 1:12 pm

Has anyone talked with IU’s panhel or made them aware of this blog and all the concerns and suggestions from parents, girls, and alumnae from IU and elsewhere? Did the Dean respond?

Donna - 01/18/12 @ 3:48 pm

Andrea, you made some great points for Judy. I wonder if Judy has experienced any rejection in this area and also wonder about the “giggling girls” comment. The IU situation is the only one in the US and is not in any way normal, in my opinion.
No matter how great this school is, I would not recommend it to any girl due to the Greek situation as it is at this time and I am Greek. It is absolutely outrageous. Greeks have to make a certain GPA both to get initiated and after that to remain members. I am glad that NPC and IU are looking at this and if they are not aware of the situation, shame on them.

Anonymous - 01/18/12 @ 7:04 pm

It is my understanding that this past year was the toughest recruitment ever. I understand the weather played a role. This year it was very mild out, while in years past, many girls dropped out of recruitment simply because they did not want to stand in the cold and in some years freezing rain and snow, but this year they had no weather drop outs.

I think for anyone to feel so horrible and badly is really awful. Some of these stories are just heart-wrenching.

I also think a lot of the comments that people have problems with are really quite fair.

In any case, I also have a daughter thinking about attending next year. I was also directed to this site to review before I/we made a decision. I am sure every school has their issues, but some of these comments are overwhelming. I am just not sure what to think.

I am thinking go Badgers! …but we really loved IU. And all I ever hear is how much everyone loves this school – is it changing, or……..

IU PHA - 01/18/12 @ 7:22 pm

Dear concerned parents and students:

First and foremost, thank you for providing insightful and thoughtful commentary over the formal recruitment process at Indiana University. As many of you have recognized, the system currently in place is imperfect in many ways, and as a result of these imperfections, many outstanding women are left emotionally devastated; as such, the Panhellenic Association is constantly looking for ways to improve recruitment in order to optimize the experience for every Potential New Member.

Second, with that being said, it is important to note that recruitment is organized and implemented through the Panhellenic Association, which is comprised of the 20 National Panhellenic Conference sororities represented at Indiana University. As self-governing student organizations, each of the 20 NPC sororities have their own individual policies and procedures which must be taken into account as the community works to increase the number of spaces available. Students, alumnae and national representatives are all a part of these discussions.

Third, a recent step that Indiana University’s Greek community has taken to provide more students with an opportunity to be placed during recruitment has been through a process called extension, which is essentially inviting more organizations to join our community. Last spring, we extended to three organizations, two of which accepted. The first organization that accepted, Theta Phi Alpha, came to campus in this past fall (2011), and began recruiting; the second organization that accepted, Alpha Sigma Alpha, will follow suit beginning in the fall of 2012.

Fourth and finally, thank you again for supplying us with your perspective. If you have any constructive advice for positive changes that we can make as a community, please direct them to the Vice President of Recruitment at iupharec@gmail.com.

Best,
Indiana University Panhellenic Association

Rho gam - 01/19/12 @ 6:57 am

I was a recruitment guide at IU. I was not equipped to handle the profound disappointment and isolation experienced by many of the young women in my group. I lived it on the other side, and Jane I could not disagree MORE. The recruitment process specific to Indiana was dysfunctional 15 years ago, and it is now. Yes there may always be more pnm’s than slots, and yes there are always going to be girls released for one reason or another, however, the IU system is exclusionary; it destroys the self- esteem of young women who have so much to offer. Your perspective is exactly the attitude that perpetuates the “we are too good for you” myth. That is never okay and I am sad to hear that after reading the the examples of heartbreak on this forum, you would still feel that way. This a negative experience that is forever imprinted.
I loved my Greek experience at IU. I love IUB, it is a phenomenal school with a wonderful Greek system. But the process is broken-sororities exist to give young women a place to belong, not to make them feel like less of a human being because they don’t meet someone’s idea of a perfect stereotype. The process does have to change- IU knows it, IUPHC knows it, and NPC knows it. As repeated SO many times here- there ARE ways to rectify this. Most of us are not concerned with protecting anyone’s convoluted view of a quintessential Greek system. We just want to see these girls treated with the dignity and respect they deserve.

Susan - 01/19/12 @ 9:20 am

Rho Gam, thanks so much for your input. You sort of wonder if anyone on the lucky side is aware of what’s going on for the other 800 girls; I’m so glad you do. Have you expressed your sentiments to your chapter? IUPanhel? Your national/international? The input from people like you is really important I’d think and much, much appreciated! Thanks.

denise - 01/19/12 @ 9:22 am

If the system is broken…for now you could allow for a spring informal recruitment for all of the houses to permit them to welcome back some of these fine young ladies…and not worry about the bed count. It may not be enough to give everyone a spot, but it can open it up to more girls. Make it so that ALL the houses can do this regardless of their pledge class size as my current understanding is that the use of spring informal rush is limited. Maybe you could even “encourage” it.

Andrea - 01/19/12 @ 9:25 am

Dear Rho Gam,
Hear! Hear! I told my daughter after she told me about her Rho Gamma crying with her and telling her how none of the Rho Gams understood what was going on with all the cuts, how hard a job that has got to be. I feel for you all having to deliver this kind of disappointing news to these girls and I commend you for being there for them. I know you too have to live with seeing so much heartache and disappointment. It’s comforting to read all these similar experience. I wish all the commentators on here who feel this isn’t a big deal for these girls, never know what it’s like to feel absolutely helpless as a parent. I literally stayed in bed one day crying with helplessness and trying to figure out what my daughter did or didn’t do to deserve the pain she was and still is experiencing.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Rho gam - 01/19/12 @ 12:18 pm

Believe me. I knew. We all knew. And IUPHC knows. They have made some changes. They are simply not enough.

Susan - 01/19/12 @ 12:40 pm

Well, if they know and everyone is aware of this, why don’t they make changes? Real, problem sovling changes? If other large universities with huge Greek systems can handle their students, why can’t IU’s sororities? Why not hold informal rush in the fall or again later in the spring with second pledge classes so that a single pledge class a year isn’t too big to handle? Why not let girls live in a year or two and then move out? Why not have members who don’t live in? It seems that girls will be closest to their pledge classes anyway, so I just don’t get the bed quota thing nor that argument. Changes like this would handle things. As for expansion, which is great,everyone knows that not to have a physical house is a huge disadvantage because, whether you live in the house or not, it’s where you meet, etc. For the new chapters coming to campus, to not have a house in a system like this is an issue. They will not be in the fold until that happens, providing they survive. So, having new chapters is terrific, but unless the university and panhel go all the way with houses, it’s just a bandaid on this problem. This is no secret. Plus, even adding two sororities to campus does not accommodate the number of girls interested at all. These are just a few examples of doable solutions. This isn’t brain surgery here. What is the hold up? Who is in charge? Who decides? If everyone knows, why aren’t they doing something about it?????

Paula - 01/19/12 @ 12:42 pm

I sure hope IUPHC will make more changes ASAP.

Also, a question for IUPHC and Rho Gamma – Do any sororities ever participate in spring informal rush?

petrified parent of an incoming freshman next year - 01/19/12 @ 2:20 pm

Anonymous – I’m where you are…love IU and my daughter wants to be apart of the Greek system, but what if she doesn’t get selected. I’d like to talk to you apart from this site.

D - 01/19/12 @ 5:03 pm

I agree with Susan. IU with all of its so-called brain power can solve this and many solutions have been given. It’s the only school that continues to do this, even thought they know it’s not working. With all of these college-educated individuals, you think they could figure out, if it’s not working, get solutions……..

Lynn - 01/19/12 @ 6:54 pm

Andrea – If your daughter is still looking for roommates please contact me at lynnmom86@gmail.com. I can provide you with my daughter’s contact info. It is too bad the PanHellenic organization is not providing some way for these girls to connect. Even a message board like this might be helpful to the girls. It might help them to talk with others that have experienced the same thing.

Sharon - 01/19/12 @ 8:05 pm

Okay, with all of these great ideas, what do we do with them? Has anyone emailed IU panhel like it suggests in their message? Have they responded? Have any alums from various houses contacted their nationals or internationals to see if they can help find a solution? Has the Dean responded? Have the chapters themselves seen this blog? It seems there is so much momentum here with so many people wanting to get things done, that it would be ashamed to see it stop. It’s too easy for this to just evaporate as time passes so that it can be pushed under the rug again and again until next year when there is a fresh crop of heartsick girls and parents going through this same sad experience.

Lynn - 01/19/12 @ 8:28 pm

I emailed the advisor for Greek Life and the Dean of Students. Three straight days of silence from them. Hoping they are just busy or thinking about the best way to respond. I will be kind of surprised if I don’t at least get a response. I pay tuition too! Will contact IU Panhellenic next. Have some ideas:

Move recruitment to September. At least that way, the girls will not have to start over with their college life in January and will be able to make housing plans for their next year earlier. Fraternities recruit in September and sororities at other schools do too.

Most importantly, all sororities should allow some live outs.

Provide some kind of forum for these unfortunate young women now. This could take the form of a get together, or even just a message board would make them feel less isolated. Maybe they could even connect and find roommates for the next year.

Do more than just add one sorority a year. Also, at other schools where there are no houses, the University provides a dedicated meeting space for sororities. At least that would make a sorority without a house a little more attractive.

I’m sure there are lots of other ideas, these are just a few.

Sharon - 01/19/12 @ 9:34 pm

Okay, I’ve just had time to read some of these entries thoroughly. And, concerning IUPanhel and the student organizations governing themselves, I get that. But by allowing them to create a situation that knowingly and willingly excludes hundreds of their classmates to the extent that people are talking about not sending their children to IU, seems to be ridiculous. It’s the tail wagging the dog. I just don’t see how the university can stand idly by saying that they get to govern themselves when it’s this extreme and exclusive and creates such dissonance in a class of young women attending the school. But, I don’t really understand any of the excuses presented here. Failure to act quickly and efficiently remedy this situation fully is unacceptable really. These excuses of “the way it’s always been” or “the way it was for me” or bringing colonies without houses or “the system wouldn’t be so strong if we had more girls” or “living together in the same house for three years is what makes our sororities stronger than any chapters anywhere else” etc. etc. This blog is filled with doable ideas, but in the meantime, the very least that could be done would be to stop the illusion for these PNMs. They shouldn’t be unwittingly invited over to houses within weeks of beginning freshman year, all wide-eyed and full of hope. They shouldn’t be brought to a big recruitment meeting to hear how great it all is and how they should sign up without really letting them know that about half of the girls in the room will not be allowed into this special world. If they have connections, maybe their chances are two out of three, but if they are new to the whole IU scene without older friends or sisters or some connection, their chances of actually getting into a house are probably one in four or one in five, maybe. Then they ought to let them know that when they are rejected, that this same system that is busy selling itself will tell them to just look into other clubs in their majors or around the university, that maybe they’ll find some other way to get some involvement in their school because they aren’t going to be allowed in the Greek system during their college years. And don’t forget to tell them that it’s because there aren’t enough beds in the houses; there aren’t enough beds. Oh my God. This system has made a mockery out of what sorority and sisterhood were for me in college. It just breaks my heart and boggles my mind. Wow.

Karen - 01/19/12 @ 10:17 pm

Paula, I too was in a sorority at a Big 10 school some 30 yrs. ago. In my junior year, the concept of over-pledging was born. We did away with the bed quota system. The pledge classes grew a little more with each year. And yes Jane, we were worried it was going to ruin the sorority life as we and our mothers had known it. However, it turned out to be such a blessing. Do the women get to live in the house for 3 yrs. ? No-but they don’t know the difference. The most important thing is that the women are able to be a member of a wonderful sisterhood and have a place they can call home regardless of whether or not they live in the house. My daughter has been accepted to the IU Honors College for next fall. She has heard the horror stories about IU sorority recruitment. And while she is selecting a college based on education, she is also open to the idea of Greek life. The current system at IU is obviously no longer working, given the size of the student body. There are so many wonderful women that go through recruitment. Increasing the number of new members would only strengthen the sororities.

Andrea - 01/19/12 @ 11:36 pm

Susan,
You seem to be very supportive and make some great points, but forgive me if I am wrong your daughter did get a bid from her top choice, correct? If so that’s great and I hope it goes well for her. And, I commend you for realizing that even though your daughter was one of the fortunate ones there is a problem here, a lot of parents would just figure the system works and leave it at that. We really do need to write the powers that be and not just post our feelings and thoughts on here. Please if you are reading this take the time to write your feelings down and send them to the names mentioned in earlier posts. So many of our girls are hurting and it is up to us to save future students from feeling this pain. I may even have my daughter write letters as well, they are the source and we will never feel their pain.

Dorothy - 01/20/12 @ 12:29 am

One of the saddest and most disappointing things about this process is that the university and the sorority system saw this coming once again and did nothing to prepare the majority of women who were participating in recruitment for the rejection that they were surprisingly going to get. These women were never given the accurate statistics for their chances of getting a bid during their college research. My daughter up rooted herself from across the country and turned down stronger programs and lots of merit scholarship money to have the “complete college experience” of being at a big school with a big Greek system and what that could offer her. What a mistake this has been. There is no excuse for not providing immediate counseling to these girls who were demoralized, humiliated, and now in many cases questioning themselves over and over again as to why or why not me, and deflating their self-esteem to an all time low. We all want a quick, big solution for this out of date system that stands alone at IU. In reality, nothing will change fast for the women that were victims this year or in recent years. This university owes them big time. It owes them emotional counseling individually and in group form. Many of these women are now isolating themselves and disengaging from their life as they knew it. They had friendships made during first semester, and now these friendships are in fragile states. The other thing that this university owes them is to help them navigate themselves into clubs and organizations on campus that were formed in the fall and now are “closed” to new members. What kind of nonsense is this? My daughter is one who is trying very hard to turn this around and get involved in her own way, and is finding one obstacle after another to getting involved in the school. Clubs and organizations she is interested in are “closed” since she didn’t apply or join in the fall. She didn’t join those organizations then, because she planned on participating in recruitment and understood that she would have a good chance of getting a bid.
Another thing that could be done quickly is to soften the hearts of the sorority leaders and allow your new sisters to invite their friends who didn’t get bids to be able to get involved in some of your activities that are an important part of the IU culture. If it really pains the leaders of these houses to reject many outstanding women wanting to make a contribution to their school then they should have no problem reaching out to those who are so hurt. Essentially, they should be a good example and not exclusionary to the point of severing relationships that were so valued.

OK…enough of my venting. Parents, and brave young women like the Rho Gamma who stepped up to the plate on this forum, we have to be LOUD!!! This forum link needs to get in a more public arena…like College Confidential or College Prowler, not to mention sending it to the Today Show, Dateline, and other sources that are much bigger than we are here. At minimum, this year’s applicants and next year’s freshman deserve to have a very transparent view of the current process and their chances of getting a bid. Students and their families have the right to make informed decisions. A more public forum may help elevate this discussion to a level where progress towards a solution moves more quickly than it has so far. This is not about retribution against the IU Greek system or IU. It is about mitigating the consequences of how hundreds of young women each year are having to deal with being rejected from a University sponsored system that they initially looked up to. Is it really in the best interest of IU or the IU Greek system to maintain an internal process that results in so much net disappointment and negative feelings. Yes, it’s a competitive world and we all must learn how to face rejection. I’m just not sure these are the institutions you want to use as the primary vehicles for this lesson. They should be safe havens to strengthen and prepare young women for the challenges ahead rather than cutting them down so early in their college experience. Perhaps IU’s Greek system has more of a Spartan culture. If so, then admit it openly to those who wish to be part of the “IU family” we were introduced to during the college tour.

Susan #2 - 01/20/12 @ 6:18 am

Hi Andrea,
There are 2 Susan’s posting on this blog. I am the one whose daughter got her top choice and though I have not posted recently, I have been reading the comments and do definitely feel for the kids who did not get a sorority. My daughter was quite distressed during the entire process and her joy at receiving her top choice was tempered by many of her friends who did not fare as well. I will take your message to heart and express my concern as you suggested.

D - 01/20/12 @ 1:52 pm

Thanks to the Rho Gam and others who are willing/able to take a stand about the injustices surrounding the Greek system at IU.

This really needs to go to somewhere like Dateline as the situation has lingered for so long with the school doing little to move things in a positive direction until they are forced to do so.

Have an open/casual spring rush soon, letting each group take another 20-30 girls (or whatever is appropriate) with the understanding that the new girls will be on a waiting list to live in the house. You will see good results.

Tracy - 01/21/12 @ 11:11 am

Here is one thing that WAS done at Indiana University this year.

The Hillel Center at Indiana University, which is an organization dedicated to assuring that Jewish college students have opportunities to recognize and develop their leadership potential and to express themselves in traditional and creative ways, sent an email out, on the day or the day after that bids were given out, to the freshman girls that are Jewish that said something to the extent of “for those of you that are looking to live off campus next year, JOIN US for dinner tomorrow night and a tour of off-campus living.”

I thought this was just great!

Here is one organization that sought out a way to help – there must have been others – anyone know of any?

Dorothy - 01/21/12 @ 8:20 pm

I believe “D” has an excellent idea…about having each sorority take an additional 30 women in. I do not believe, however, that the women should be put through another recruitment ordeal. The houses know who they discarded. The Rho Gamma’s know who was doing well throughout the week. The houses could get together, decide who will get a “late bid”; that way no women are getting more than one “late bid” per house. The women most likely have found alternative housing at this point, so a wait list might not be necessary for living in the house. These women would be eligible for all activities and philanthropies. Has the IU sorority system ever thought of the positive outcome of expanding the number of recruits they have? They would have more outreach opportunities for their philanthropies and could do more good for their communities and the women who were rejected. Here is a chance to make a change that would benefit many people quickly…even the women who received a bid, as many of them feel tormented that they took a spot in a sorority that was earned by their friend, but denied.

I challenge all the sororities to do this. The first ones to do it will receive very positive press….to local and national media. They would show that they are not afraid of change, that they are the true pioneers at IU. Which sorority will be first? You have the power to do so much good!

D - 01/21/12 @ 8:58 pm

Dorothy, they need to have what is called COB, Continuous Open Bidding, (used to be called Open Rush) which is a very very limited version of Rush. Girls sign up for it and groups usually invite only those that they know they can give a bid to. It may involve only one event and dress is casual. Could even involve just eating lunch together in the cafeteria a few times. The details vary from school to school in the way that it is done. Some of the recent pledges can suggest who to COB.

Also it is fine that Hillel is giving actitities; however this should be done by all of the religious houses . These actitivies are standard at the majority of colleges and are not thought of extra efforts.

Jo - 01/25/12 @ 5:26 pm

I am an IU graduate who was in a sorority, but did not take the easy path. My freshman year, I decided not to come back from break because the weather was so awful. Then I regretted it and decided to try it again my sophomore year. It is harder to get placed as a sophomore, and I knew that going in. However, I also knew which chapters I was interested in since I had been on campus for three semesters already. I ended up at 8 party with 4 chapters, only one of which I liked. The chapter I liked was a newer chapter and did not have a house, it was housed in Ashton. My father was vehement against me pledging there because he would not pay for me to live in a dorm that was in poor condition when he was on campus. So I dropped out. Then a month or two later 7 chapters were doing COB and I signed up even though the chapter I liked before I dropped out. Of the 7, I really liked on in particular and was hoping to get a call. That call never came. Instead, I got two calls. Both from chapters I had invitations to before I dropped. My roommate sat me down and gave me some tough love. She told me that I needed to consider those two chapters and go visit. She said this was my last chance to go Greek and I needed to go in with an open mind. One chapter was (and still is) highly regarded on campus and the other was not. I went to both and I loved the lower regarded chapter. I had lunch with some great women in a more relaxed setting got to know them and I felt at home.

I am going to say something that may not be popular but here it goes. When women are ranking their choices after 20 party, they tend to put the most popular chapters at the top. They get the popular 14, and then 8 and then get released before preference or go to pref and go bidless. I have seen it too many times! A family friend went through recruitment this year and did exactly what I described. Objectively, I can say she was probably not a good fit for a few of the chapters she ranked highly and was a really good fit for some chapters she ranked at the bottom. She got 3 chapters back at 8 and no chapters for preference. The chapters she cut early took the largest pledge classes. Some of these women do themselves in with their open house rankings.

There are two feasible solutions to the problem. The first being for IU to offer small lots to any new sorority wanting to come to campus. There are enough lots, trust me. The second being to tell the chapters that they are going to set a campus total and if their house doesn’t have that many beds, then they must allow live outs. And we all know neither are going to happen.

Another Big Ten Woman - 01/25/12 @ 5:38 pm

I was Greek at another Big Ten university and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. It completely changed my entire collegiate experience.

The IU situation is beyond appalling.

But what I think most of the moms here are missing is that IU ***wants*** it this way. They ***like***it this way. They ***don’t care***. I know that sounds harsh, but they obviously ***don’t care***. It is a system steeped in exclusiveness that far surpasses just about anything in the South. The fact that this continues to be a problem after they have been repeatedly approached by the NPC and the national member organizations means THEY SIMPLY DON’T CARE.

Perhaps the only way to change it is to bring really negative national exposure to the situation. But even then I don’t know that enough outrage can be brought to bare on the situation to really change it. If the alums and actives like being exclusive, then they just won’t care and will continue to say that no one understands the “IU culture” (whatever that is in their mind that makes them so unique). The University, however, might not like the negative publicity, especially if it can impact enrollment numbers. But again, you are talking disappointed women over sorority recruitment, not something of the nature that happened at Penn State. It’s going to be hard to generate a lot of sympathy for disappointed PNMs.

For the women who want the “entire collegiate experience,” there is much to be had at many other universities including many in the Big Ten. If IU wants to create an inbred, unfeeling Panhellenic system, let them. Yes, it is hard for the IU alums who want their daughters to go there. But IU is doing it to themselves. Choose a different school that has just as much to offer academically and frankly probably a whole lot more in the panhellenic aspect.

sela - 01/25/12 @ 9:12 pm

You guys do all remember that you’re talking about 18-21 year old young women, right?

If these women didn’t want to live in a house with all their sisters; didn’t think that was an important part of the sorority culture; thought the system was, in effect broken, they probably would not have participated in recruitment or received bids in the first place.

Saying “the sorority who takes extra members will be so brave and awesome” is one thing – but please remember, these women have very big bills to pay. They know that stepping outside the norm could possibly cause their membership numbers to plummet to the point where they cannot keep their house open, or their chapter alive. They will not be lauded by their national headquarters for being “brave.”

Look at it this way. If you asked a bunch of 15 year olds who are a week from turning 16 if changing the driving age to 17 was a good idea, what do you think they’d say? They’d probably throw screaming fits. If you asked a bunch of 22 year olds the same question, they’d probably look at the facts and (if the facts supported it) say “yeah, whatever, good plan.” They are no longer IN IT. It’s not a decision that will affect them one way or another. Everyone saying the active members of the sororities should just go ahead and change, you’re doing the same exact thing.

The only way change will happen at IU is if it is MANDATED – by the administration, and by NPC groups who will show they don’t approve by pulling up stakes and leaving the campus.

Another Big Ten Woman - 01/26/12 @ 12:57 pm

Jo said:
“I am going to say something that may not be popular but here it goes…Some of these women do themselves in with their open house rankings.”

I think you are absolutely right.

Unfortunately even if Panhel tells them the numbers and the odds, most of the women won’t do anything any differently. They think they are special enough to be one of the chosen ones that gets the top house. Getting 18 year old women to honestly assess themselves and where they would fit in best when they have been told their entire lives how special they are… Good luck with that.

In addition, there will always be women who are “too good” for the “lesser chapters” and they would rather not be Greek than be in a “less desirable” group. So, again, some of the women do it to themselves.

Like you, Jo, I was in a “less desirable” chapter and I would do it all over again. I had a great experience and sitting here today I belong to a wonderful sorority for life. The other women who are too good for particular groups will spend the rest of their lives thinking what if…

IU Grad - 01/29/12 @ 8:31 am

I graduated from IU in 1997 and was in a sorority. I participated in recruitment as a sophmore because I transferred from Ball State. When I went through recruitment, my best friends chapter released me and I was devastated. The release was due to my GPA, I had a decent GPA but they needed a pledge class with a higher GPA because their house GPA had fallen quite a bit. Their recruitment ADVISORS are the ones who made the grade releases she had no control over it. I didn’t believe her for the longest time (although I didn’t let it affect our friendship as we are still best friends) until I got into my chapter and I saw how things worked with the recruitment process, I was shocked.

We made releases strictly on grades at times (didn’t matter what her “score” was or who knew her). Also people would “fight” for certain women and if you had more friends in the chapter, they would rally to get a woman or if you didn’t have a strong “posse” in the house the women you want would be released.

At IU, typically seniors do not want to live out because who wants to move out of a house where the food is cooked for you, there is never a dull moment, bathrooms get cleaned by a cleaning crew, and you feel safe and secure. Our house, only 5th year seniors could live out. I had two friends who lived out because they were 5th year and they regretted doing that. They hated living in an apartment and always having to drive to the house for activities, dances, meetings etc. It’s something about IU with such a large greek system that seniors do not want to live out. You would really miss the sisterhood of your last year. My last year in the house was really the best and most seniors agree with this. It’s the most emotional too because you realize what you are going to miss.

Susan - 01/30/12 @ 12:33 pm

Well, it seems that things quiet down after the intial shock and horror of the realities of IU’s rush fade a bit. Then, nothing gets done, nothing changes, things get pushed under the rug yet again until outrage and disgust at the system and University take hold of a new group of students and parents the next January. Then, IU’s Panhel and the University field inquiries again and wait for it all to subside over and over and over again. I think it’s absurd, silly really, that the University does not have control over their student organizations and cannot force them to adapt if this indeed is the case. Same with NPC really. If it’s just a bunch of girls thrilled to be chosen and feel elite and their alums or advisors who STILL thrill in the exclusive nature of IU–however stunted that sounds–who are left to decide whether or not to include more girls, I doubt they change a thing. If the University cannot force a student organization to include more members, then it seems that the University should do everything in its power to provide more sororities AND housing to accommodate their growing student body. Is it? Does the University make money off of Greek housing? It did at my university, but I have no idea here. If so, I don’t understand why it wouldn’t want to provide more houses. As it is, hundreds of sophomores move off campus to apartments when the University could be making money on them in a sorority house. Maybe financial gain would be incentive. Perhaps if alums push for change rather than just sickened parents something might get done. Or, if alums contact their nationals and internationals to make sure they are aware of the situation at IU, maybe they would be helpful. I don’t know. It’s really just sickening and makes the University and the sorority system look so bad. Who is in charge of this mess? 18-21 year old girls? Still no word from the dean? Is anyone contacting IU’s Panhel anymore? And NPC, what is happening at IU for next year? ASA is coming? Will there be housing for these new chapters? Where do all these parents find answers? Maybe NPC can help suggest ways that all these parents can help with the situation at IU so maybe their daughters can have a great sorority experience beginning next year with a new chapter. Lots of people want to help, but they don’t necessarily know what to do but complain. Can NPC guide people here?

IU grad - 01/30/12 @ 7:52 pm

Even if IU allows the new sororities to build houses, the sorority has to come up with the money to build it. I am not sure if the newest sororities are strong enough nationally/financially to afford to build the size houses needed.

denise - 01/31/12 @ 6:51 am

I’m still not sure why no one is pusing for “spring” recruitment or open bidding or whatever and let some more girls join. It seems like a quick solution until a better solution can be found for next year. If each house took just 10 more girls, well…I think that might just solve the problem temporarily. JMHO

D - 01/31/12 @ 7:12 am

Denise, on 01/21, I suggested open recruitment and some schools even have snap bids; so something can be done now. Why it hasn’t happened, I don’t know. Seems like housing is always an excuse to not do anything. However, the newest women could be put on a waiting list, etc. In my opinion, something could be done now. I am sure the newest pledges, if this happened, could give up living in the house at this time. Some schools, where Greek interest is at peak levels, have pledge classes at 100-130 … how many IU takes in their pledge classes, I don’t know.

denise - 01/31/12 @ 10:43 am

It kind of makes you wonder if anyone at IU then really does care or want to help these women. I truly believe each chapter asking 10 more women to join will not upset anything. When I was in a chapter many, many years ago, the seniors were more than thrilled to live out. I’m sure it’s still the same way. In any event, “beds” should not be the ultimate reason behind the numbers. Let the “left out” women join … it’s still not too late for the current school year. If I had a way to make it happen, I would. I’m frustrated that what appears to be an easy fix for now is going nowhere. Thanks for your post.

npc - 01/31/12 @ 2:04 pm

Please know that the National Panhellenic Conference continues to hold discussions with leaders of the Panhellenic and local alumnae about this situation and is committed to try to find ways to improve this process.

As mentioned in an earlier blog post, Theta Phi Alpha colonized fall 2011 on campus and Alpha Sigma Alpha will be colonizing fall 2012. At this juncture neither one of these sororities will have housing; primarily due to land and facility availability at this time. As of a conversation held last week with Panhellenic officials, the Panhellenic is considering additional expansion of next groups as well.

The University does not own the sorority chapter houses on this campus. They are privately owned by local house corporations and/or national housing corporations.

We encourage concerned parties to continue to voice your questions, comments and specific concerns directly to the Indiana University Panhellenic at iupharec@gmail.com.

IU grad - 01/31/12 @ 3:46 pm

My chapter does have a live out policy if you are a senior but you still have to pay dues and there is a still a fee involved. You have to pay around $1000 to live out. So it would still be cheaper for a senior to live in a crappy apartment then live in the chapter house but again most seniors do not want to live out. We love living in the house and senior year is typically thr best as you get the most wanted rooms, best parking place etc. who wants to live out and be farther from campus, still have to shuttle to house for activities. That is the one thing about it, seniors do not want to live out.

For the person wanting pledge class sizes they are all over. As small as 33 and as large as 70 depends on how big house is, seniors graduating etc. most pledge classes average around 40.

Unfortunately it happens that women dont get bids but in all honesty the women who dont get a bid anywhere totally played the name game. I was a Rho chi (now called rho gam) otherwise known as recruitment counselor. I had two bidless girls and they were ones that totally played the only top tier house is good enough for me game and they didnt win because those chapters take high 30′s low 40 pledge classes because physically are smaller houses.

The newest sorority was ready to take a huge class and i believe they took 50 something. I bet most of the bidless women ranked them
Last got them off their rotation list but now are thinking twice about that. Probably very nice women all developing a sisterhood. I bet if they opened up informal reruitment right now the women who would go would be sophmores who did not have favorable recruitment around 8 party so had to drop out and the bidless women wouldnt go. Lets just be honest go ask your daughters friends who didnt get a bid “if theta phi alpha offered you a bid would you take it”

Jo - 01/31/12 @ 4:23 pm

One of the posts above mentioned that none of the chapters at IU are strong enough nationally to be able to afford housing. I believe this to be incorrect. Off the top of my head, I think Delta Phi Epsilon, Sigma Kappa and Tri Sigma all have national organizations that could support a chapter house. However, IU will just not budge an release any land until all of the Greek houses currently not on Jordan give up their chapter houses and move to the extension. It’s ridiculous. IUPC is going to open up again for extension since Tri Sigma decided not to re-colonize fall of ’13. There is a reason they did not want to come: the housing issue. IUPC it’s time to get serious about extension and make a REAL effort to level the playing field. Allow two or three lots to become available and you’ll see DPhiE, SK, and Tri Sig suddenly interested. You just have to dangle to correct carrot.

Lynn - 01/31/12 @ 7:25 pm

I am a little dismayed by IU Grad’s comments. You blame the young women who did not get in for “playing the name game.” It is easy to look back in retrospect and see that choosing some of the less sought after houses would garner a bid. In fact, I am thankful for that information, I can pass it on to the other families I know that will be participating in recruitment over the next few years. However, my daughter had no idea how to rank the chapters to get a bid. I don’t know how she ranked the chapters, but she should not be blamed for this system. IU Panhellenic itself calls their own recruitment imperfect and admits that they are emotionally devastating many fine young women. Also, under the current system, hundreds of women are left out in the cold no matter how they rank the chapters. There just aren’t enough spots for a university of this size. Most universities do a much better job of placing the women who want to participate. IU should find a way to do the same.

Another rho fan - 01/31/12 @ 10:39 pm

I can honestly say that the “name game”(especially this year) does not go on as often as you think. Many pnm’s don’t know anything about ranking, and I did not see a lot of exclusionary ranking by participants. Every house did well this year- it definitely was not a process of mutual selection. The houses were selecting-it was a simple equation of supply and demand. People were all over the map preference night and still did not get bids.

Dorothy - 02/02/12 @ 3:38 pm

Well, here is the response I received after I wrote to iupharec@gmail.com:

“Dorthy (Sic)

Thank you for your past two emails and sorry for the delay in the response. We appreciate all suggestions and we are collecting and reviewing all of them and passing them along to the Greek Community.

The Recruitment Team”

Unfortunately, I’m not satisfied with this answer. I feel as though this is simply an attempt to pacify me rather than a sincere commitment by IU to recognize our concerns as a problem that it has any accountability for. IU needs to accept more responsibility over the Greek organizations on their campus beyond simply ensuring that no laws are broken. While I understand that the Sororities have a significant degree of independence, they are part of the University culture and I don’t think that IU can remain a neutral party to this particular issue. Many of the young women who chose IU did so with very high expectations that they could participate in the Greek system and there was no information provided by the University indicating how exclusive the IU Greek system is compared to other Universities.

As several contributors to this dialogue have suggested, why can’t the University advocate more vocally for their students and formally request that sororities add membership to more young women beyond the bed limitations of the existing houses?

Here are some excerpts from the NPC mission statement from their website:

“This We Believe

Mutual Choice

The young woman who wants fraternity experience will find it possible to belong on most campuses today. Fraternity membership is a social experience arrived at by mutual choice and selection. Fraternity membership is by invitation.

Fraternities Exist Because They…
.
* Fill the need of belonging.

Fraternities Continue Because:

Young women feel a continuing need to belong. Parents appreciate fraternity values and standards and cooperate to make membership possible. College administrations, recognizing the values of fraternities, continue to welcome them on their campuses and to invite them to establish new chapters.”
____________________________________________________________________

The IU sponsored Greek system is significantly flawed and seems to stray from the NPC mission in that it’s an exclusive system that leaves a significant number of young women with a less than a 50% chance that a “mutual” choice is possible. More than half of the young women who participate in recruitment will have their need to feel belonged “filled” with a highly public process of rejection.

I’m also concerned about some of the post-recruitment experiences my daughter recounted and I wonder if others have heard similar stories from their daughters. Last week my daughter and a friend were heckled publicly as “(expletive) GDI’s” after being turned away from a Fraternity party that they had been invited to by friends who were part of that fraternity. Some of their close friends who did ultimately receive bids have suddenly become quite distant and unwilling to socialize with them. Again, I understand that this is the de facto social engineering that occurs among any group of people in a community, but it seems that IU and the NPC would hold their students and members to higher standards of acceptable conduct to mitigate mean-spirited or outright bullying behaviors. I wonder if the University would have a different level of engagement and tolerance if the exclusionary criteria and heckling had undertones of racial, biometric, or religious discrimination.

Today’s freshmen were in kindergarten or first grade in 1999. Prompted by tragic events that year, most Primary and Secondary schools enacted comprehensive anti-bullying education and policies to minimize if not eliminate the corrosive effects of social ostracization. Most were zero tolerance policies because of the correlation noted between these types of behaviors and subsequent adolescent mental health disorders. I hope that IU can consider this a problem that is worthy of more than just acting as an e-mail conduit between this blog and the NPC. They need to advocate for this segment of their student body and wield some of the influence they have. While the exclusivity may be something the IU sororities wish to maintain as part of their culture, I cannot see how it is in the best interest of the University or most of the student body.

At this point, my goal is not to get my daughter a place within the Greek system. It’s about making it better for those women who do want a second chance and for the upcoming Freshman class. At minimum, the following needs to happen:

1. IU and the IU Greek organizations need to be much more transparent about the exclusivity of the Greek system at IU. The campus tour guides need to speak to this up front so that students (and their parents) can make informed decisions about \where they spend the next 4 years and their $160,000.

2. Do what we can to collaborate with the University and the NPC to have the IU Greek houses increase the number of bids they give to women who will live outside of the house. It will be more affordable for many and make the recruitment process less destructive and more equitable with what is done across the country.

Again, I am not out on some rampage to sully the reputation of the University or the IU Greek system as long as I feel that the problem is not being discounted or being suppressed. I view an effort to educate current and future applicants about this situation as the right and ethical thing to do given what I know now. IU and the NPC can join in this effort in a collaborative manner or continue to remain in more passive roles.

Please help me get the word out to forums that will have a broader and more influential audience. Contact me at Dotty.N@comcast.net so we can organize and be heard.

Indiana University, Bloomington – Student Life and Learning - 02/03/12 @ 4:37 pm

We are writing this response on behalf of Indiana University, Bloomington. We understand the grave concerns that parents, students, alumni and our other constituents have shared about the Panhellenic recruitment process at Indiana University, Bloomington. The Panhellenic Association is a self-governing organization that is comprised of the 20 National Panhellenic Conference sororities that have chapters at Indiana University. An unprecedented number of women registered for formal recruitment this year, which was approximately a 13% increase from the number of women that registered the prior year. Despite having added a 20th chapter through this fall, a number of women were not placed during the recruitment process. The Panhellenic Association will be welcoming another NPC sorority, Alpha Sigma Alpha, Fall of 2012 and women that are interested in joining that organization can learn more by emailing iupharec@gmail.com or by contacting the Alpha Sigma Alpha national office directly.

We are aware that there is still a need to place more women in sororities and will work with the Panhellenic community, their alumnae and national organizations to address the concerns that have been raised. A committee comprised of staff, students, alumnae and relevant constituents will be charged with reviewing the recruitment process and providing suggestions to the Panhellenic community to address these stated concerns. The Panhellenic Association is also reviewing extension and the opportunity to bring additional chapters to campus following Alpha Sigma Alpha’s colonization in the Fall of 2012. Please continue to send your suggestions to iupharec@gmail.com and they will be compiled and utilized during the recruitment review process.

sela - 02/04/12 @ 6:04 pm

Jo – re your three sororities not on campus who you for some reason believe could support housing when other NPC groups couldn’t, Delta Phi Epsilon’s chapters are mainly at small commuter campuses so I don’t know where you think they’re getting this vat of money. The larger schools they ARE at, they are considered a niche/Jewish sorority. As for Tri Sigma, they recently colonized a chapter at the University of Missouri. This is a HUGE undertaking and will take several years of oversight before the chapter is considered a success. Big LOLs at you saying that “women do themselves in with their open house rankings”…and then ranking sororities yourself.

sela - 02/04/12 @ 6:07 pm

Also, please note the post above where NPC lets us know that IU does NOT own the houses – they are owned by national or local housing corps, who could feasibly pull their support out if changes are made that they don’t dig (the latter more so than the former).

Jo - 02/05/12 @ 4:15 pm

Sela, from your posts it seems like you’re emotionally invested in this situation. I am not sure if you’re an IU student or the parent of one. Sorry if my post upset you in anyway. However, I did not rank sororities, I was stating an opinion about three chapters which I thought could support a chapter house/structure at IU. I did NOT say these chapters were better or worse than any other, that would be ranking. I just speculated about finance. You were slightly off about DPhiE. They have active chapters at quite a few larger campuses: NYU, Miami (FLA), Michigan, Central Michigan, Florida, Seton Hall, St. John’s and Florida Atlantic. At some campuses, DPhiE might fill a niche as you said. But they are not founded as a Jewish sorority and welcome women of all denominations. I still stand by my opinion, which it is that..my opinion, nothing more. Tri Sigma and Sigma Kappa have around 110 active chapters, they appear to have to the size to support an IU colonization. Whether they want to or not, I have no idea. DPhiE has approached IU a couple of times about coming back. I know they wanted to come in the 1980′s when Alpha Xi Delta, Tri Sigma and ASA came to IU. So I assume they still might be interested. We will all see soon enough what chapters are interested since it looks like IU will open again for expansion.

sela - 02/08/12 @ 11:29 am

Seton Hall? CMU? Florida Atlantic? LOL, I would hardly classify those as “larger” schools. Big 10, Pac 10, SEC is what I mean and D Phi E at those schools usually IS a primarily Jewish group – I realize they were not founded on that principle, but the fact of the matter is that at some schools that’s what they ended up being just because they never had any discriminatory language in their policies. I’m not “emotionally invested” – just telling you I don’t understand where you’re getting your opinion (unless it is from…your emotions). Trust me, they’re not rolling in dough any more than ASA or Phi Sigma Sigma are.

Linda - 02/09/12 @ 4:56 pm

Wow! I’m glad I found this site. I have a girl who is a junior in high school and she and her friends very much want to join a sorority. I grduated from IU many years ago but never joined the greek system. Different strokes. I really wanted her to attend IU since I loved it and am still in touch with many wonderful friends that I made there. Knowing that she wants to join a sorority I started doing some research on the process since I don’t have any experience with it. My goodness, this has been eye opening. My daughter is smart, funny, adventurous, involved in sports, newspaper, foreign student exchange, and many other activities. However, she does not have legacy. The process at IU sounds brutal. Knowing that her heart is set on joining a sorority I think I will be encouraging her and her friends to look at other schools. It breaks my heart since I really want her to go to IU. But being in a sorority sounds important to her and from what I can tell her chances are slim to get a spot. What a shame.

D - 02/10/12 @ 6:47 am

Is anything going to be done this semester about adding new members to the groups now on campus ? How many women do you estimate have been left out ?

Susan #2 - 02/10/12 @ 6:48 pm

Hi,
Haven’t commented recently. My daughter went through recruitment this year and indeed I thought it was brutal. I also did a bit of research and discovered it was very competitive. Having said that, my daughter is not a legacy and did not have any of those recommendation letters I have heard others talk about. She got her first choice. I will agree with what some of the others have said about women not just picking the most “popular” sororities on their pref list. My daughter tried really hard to pick sororities with women she thought she would want to be friends with. My daughter does happen to be very attractive, but just doesn’t want that to define her or want to align herself with others who find their looks supremely important. A couple of her friends really played the ‘name game’ and only elected the ‘popular sororities’…whatever that is! They did not fare as well. She is so happy with her choice! I say don’t make a decision on a university based solely on greek life, but have it as an option, give it your best shot and be realistic. There were indeed many great gals who did not find greek homes, but that in no way should define them for life. There are many other opportunities at IU. I know ultimately that the selection process is arbitary at best, but still worth a shot!

D - 02/12/12 @ 2:25 pm

Hello Susan # 2

I read your comment with great interest. It is wonderful that your daughter got her first choice and is so happy. Others got nothing. A sorority should not define a woman, just as you say; however it will at IU. Tell others about the great opportunities at IU. Attractiveness does play a part whether in life or in a sorority. Nothing new about this. I am Greek and my daughter is also, but not the same sorority. Telling the women who did not get a bid to do something else sounds easy but it is not. I wonder why other women have not been offered snap bids, etc. If this is being done, I apologize. The latest thing that I have heard is a new group is coming in the fall.

Susan - 02/13/12 @ 3:49 pm

It would be great if they actually held informal recruitment and included the girls who weren’t placed and those signed up for informal so these women get to participate. Alas. I doubt anything happens. As this all calms down, I think it will all get pushed under the rug again until outrage arises anew next year when the debacle of IU’s formal recruitment crushes another 500 women. One can only hope that IU’s Panhel and the university itself address the problems and do something now so that these kids can perhaps be a part of things during their college careers. From reading all this, however, I don’t really think that the unplaced PNMs are paramount as it seems to happen year after year after year, and no one, from IU’s Panhel to chapter nationals to NPC to the alums to the school, does enough to concretely fix it. Same nightmare, different year.

Lynn - 02/13/12 @ 7:36 pm

Yes there are other opportunites to “become involved” at IU. None of them, however, offer a home on the campus, an easy way to make friends, a social life, a sense of belonging on the campus and a lifelong connection with others in the same group. My daughter is very involved on campus, but it does not make up for not being in a sorority. Everytime she sees other women with Greek letters, she feels she is missing out. Involvment in campus activities is not a substitute for a sorority. A sorority is a different type of experience. I certainly don’t believe that this experience should define her for life, but missing out on this opportunity has defined her freshman year experience at IU.

denise - 02/14/12 @ 12:26 pm

The reason it is now quiet is that there is no use in trying to do anything. If the school truly cared, there would be open bids now to help some of the girls get placed and waive the bed requirement.

However, when IU called asking for a donation, I gladly told them “no way”. That at least pleased me some. In addtion, my senior in high school is now not going there. Somewhere else will get that tuition.

Marie - 02/15/12 @ 9:30 am

I haven’t read all the comments, but I went through sorority recruitment at IU in the early 80s. It sounds like it hasn’t changed much as far as competitiveness and things like the drama of bid night. I did join a sorority and I guess it was considered a “middle tier” sorority, but I had a great experience and am still involved in an alumnae club. I would encourage those going through recruitment to keep a variety of sororities on their list. It is like applying to college . . . if you only apply to Harvard, Yale and Princeton, don’t be shocked when you don’t get in anywhere. All of the sororities might ask you back after the first round or two, but be realistic. Keep some of the “top houses” that you like best, but also keep some middle or lower tier houses where you had a good connection. Be open minded.

Nearly all the women who come through recruitment are amazing. Several people mentioned their daughters being a cheerleader in high school, and I can say that does not make one stand out or guarantee you a spot. I think during recruitment you are looking for women who number one have a great personality that will get along with others, are genuinely interested in knowing more about the sorority, have strong academics, show some significant campus involvement at IU (like are a Redstepper, cheerleader, sports team, Singing Hoosier)and/or bring skills that will be helpful in the sorority (singing, dancing, artisitic, intramurals, bike rider, leadership, etc.). Sure, it helps if you know someone in the sorority and they are a genuine supporter of you. But you never know, they might like you but think you aren’t a great fit.

Hope this helps some.

IU Grad - 02/18/12 @ 10:01 pm

This was posted from a PHA meeting Februaruy 12th. it’s in the minutes on the IU greek website under PHA documents. Looks like Tri Sig will not come to IU:

Kendra & Kiely
o Extension Discussion
 Opening up to officially begin researching extension
 History (Laura Walker and Leslie Fasone)
 Discussions began ~two years ago
 Saw a need since ~50% of women were unmatched throughout recruitment
 Opened lines of communications with 6 PHA chapters not present on IU’s campus to survey interest in joining IU’s PHA community
o Asked why we do not do quota total, researched what their involvement would be, etc.
 Theta Phi Alpha joined PHA community this year (and had an extremely successful recruitment), Alpha Sigma Alpha coming in Fall 2012
o Sigma Sigma Sigma has declined – will not be coming to IU for various reasons
 As IU’s numbers increase as a whole, so do the numbers of individuals involved in the Greek Community; it has grown 24% in the last 4 years
 There is a need for more options to place women
 While we have the positive feedback and current support/resources of the Greek Community, we should
continue with extension currently (instead of waiting and having interest and support fade out in the future)
 IU is serving as a great example for Greek Communities at other universities, since we are one of the first campuses extending with unhoused chapters
 End goals/ideals:
 To have all 26 NPC organizations on our campus (we would be the first)
 To ensure that new chapters (and old) are viable, healthy, and successful – benchmarks, checks & balances, etc.
 To continue to be values-based organizations (as opposed to worrying about numbers) and increase sizes of organizations based on what is possible for each respective chapter (consider live-out policies, etc.)
 Recruitment process with extension might need to be reconfigured/changed
 Keep an accepting and open mind

Susan - 02/20/12 @ 3:52 pm

That’s nice that they are talking about it, but it might just be too little too late for a lot of girls–especially sophomores. Do they talk about it every year after rush and then let it sit? I think that unhoused sororities will have a time of it against all the housed chapters. Perhaps that’s enough of a drawback to prevent sororities from colonizing? Despite TPA’s success this year, housing will continue to be an issue. And I think someone said the university does not own the land the houses are on, so who decides who gets to build a house where? I’m really vague on all the housing stuff.

IU Grad - 02/21/12 @ 7:27 pm

Yes they pretty much talk about it every year. They did when I was there in the mid 90′s (graduated in 1997) when the statistics were still with around 1500 and 1600 girls rushing and roughly 40 to 45 spots in each 19 houses.

Saddened by Comments - 02/23/12 @ 2:16 pm

Sela and Jo-
I am a DPhiE and want to clarify a few points that were made.
We were founded a non-sectarian sorority in 1917 by 5 Jewish Women. We have historical Jewish roots, however today and for the past 3 decades minimally, we welcome women of all creeds who believe in our founding principles of Justice, Sisterhood and Love. While we are at universities of all sizes, that does not mean we do not have the ability to pay for housing.
We have a national housing corporation and enough financial acumen and resources to house our chapters where housing is necessary.
At this time we have a strategy in extension and have not approached IU to return. That is not to say we would not be open to it in the future if we felt we would be able to be competitive in housing and with membership to allow our women to have a good experience.
I am a mother of 3, one of whom is a girl. This situation is sad to me and I hope there is a resolution that fits all in the near future.

Gen - 02/27/12 @ 4:34 pm

Would any of you be interested in working with me to prepare a meeting with panhellenic leaders at IU this spring? I want to see what can be fixed with this process for next year?

Another Big Ten Woman - 03/03/12 @ 8:30 pm

From the Panhellenic minutes: “IU is serving as a great example for Greek Communities at other universities, since we are one of the first campuses extending with unhoused chapters”

Do they really believe they are serving as a great example to other universities? I mean seriously? Do they have any idea how their system of placing women (I should say failing to place women) is viewed by pretty much all sorority women outside of Bloomington?

Extending with unhoused chapters does not make IU a great example. If IU wants to be a great example, get your chapters to change how they do quota and start placing all of the excellent women who go bidless year after year after year. Start listening to all the national advisors, disgruntled parents, and devastated PNMs. I’m just incredulous at their seeming inability to grasp the reality of the situation. Being the first campus with all 26 groups doesn’t matter if you aren’t placing the women you already have coming! Why would the remaining groups ever consider coming?

Linda - 04/03/12 @ 6:22 am

My daughter and her 4 friends have all decided to go to Purdue rather than iu. 4 of the 5 qualify for honors and they all want a greek experience at college. They all just returned from Guatamala from a volunteer trip of helping to build homes. While there they made the decision to go to Purdue rather than go through iu rush where statistically their chances are slimmer of getting into a sorority. As an iu alum I am a little disappointed but at least its still in state tuition . Go Purdue! IU…you have missed out on some great girls.

D - 04/05/12 @ 10:23 am

@Linda,
I think that you made the right decision. Unless something has changed at IU, I would avoid it if I wanted a Greek experience. There are too many other schools that are great academically and have a reachable Greek experience. It’s not worth the money and anguish.

Jo - 04/05/12 @ 11:48 am

There are so many large campuses similar to IU that are expanding their Greek systems and promising land in the expansion: Arkansas (brining in two new chapters next fall) and Alabama (DG) are a few the come to mind. IU are you listening? This is why your sorority expansion movement is going to fail, the new chapters will not succeed in the long term until they have structures. There is available land, you just have to offer it up: corner next to Kappa SIgma, behind Gamma Phi, past the cul-de-sac on the extension. That land has to be used for student housing per the Wells plan.

Jo - 04/09/12 @ 12:31 pm

Add Ole Miss to the list. They adding at least one sorority and saying they have land for three chapters who would like to colonize. If Ole Miss and Arkansas can some up with land, why can’t Indiana?

Insider - 04/09/12 @ 10:01 pm

Everyone- including the IUB administration, acknowledges the need for additional Greek housing, as alluded to in the master plan. Unfortunately, the few “lots” which seem to be available on the extension have been designated open space and while they may appear adequate, they really could not support a large housing structure as well as parking. The master plan currently addresses every (even the “fringe)parcels owned by the university . Enrollment continues to grow, and academic needs must be met. The focus right now from a housing perspective is to upgrade the current residence halls to be more in line with other like institutions, and continue to expand academic facilities and other spaces while maintaining IU’s unique pedestrian campus. The issue of limited opportunity for Greek expansion is recognized, but the reality is that there is no simple answer. In addition, the fact that many men’s fraternities continue to be involved in infractions which force probationary measures ( and often suspension) certainly does not reflect well on the system despite the fact that the panhel chapters are stable.

Aleta Smith - 04/11/12 @ 9:39 pm

I am a freshman at IU and I have never felt more disappointment in my life. When I was nine years old, my gymnastics coach wore her letters to practice. Ever since then I have wanted to be in a house. When I was eleven, I came to IU for a summer diving camp. Ever since then I have wanted to come to IU. I am not from Indiana, so being out of state is very expensive but being an only child, my parents agreed to help me pay for it.

My first semester was harder than I imagined, even though I took A.P. courses in high school and have always been very independent, and I was very close to transferring. I was encouraged, however, to stay at IU, because once I rushed and “got into a house” everything would fall into place and I would love it. So, I waited it out and rushed. I loved it. Every part of it. I loved them and as far as I could tell, they loved me. I had wonderful conversations with girls in multiple houses and many of the girls seemed happy to have me. I was invited to a pre rush event, received 14 houses for 14 party, 6 for 8 party, and zero for three. All the plans I had for college had been ruined. All the dreams I had for being in a house were crushed in a second. Seeing letters still occasionally brings me to tears.

One of the things that drives me crazy is the phrase “If it’s meant to be, it will happen.” I spent two weeks encouraging my best friend to rush and at 20 party, I predicted what house she would want to be in. At bid night, she received a bid from her top house, the house I had predicted at 20 party. She is my best friend and even though I was crushed, I was crazy happy for her. I knew she would love it, she was going to contribute a lot to the house. But watching her do all the things I have been dreaming about since I was nine is not the easiest thing. I have had numerous girls tell me multiple times that I “fell through the cracks” and that they don’t know how it happened. I am outgoing and have wanted to be in a house for reasons other than popularity. I wanted to be involved, plan events, run for council, study abroad, live in the house, and most importantly, make lifelong friends I could call sisters.

Several of my friends at different universities got into houses during the fall (IU does rush during the winter, which is also crazy) and some even moved into the house for the second semester. Many of my friends are in the same house at a university closer to home and I have been encouraged to transfer and rush there for many reasons. I would have a better chance of getting into a house because I have known the girls since age 3 (for anyone who says this doesn’t matter, it does, even if they won’t admit it), I would be paying 1/4th of what I’m paying to go to IU, and I would be with childhood friends. This is a decision I have been working on for months now. I love Indiana. It has been very disappointing in many things other than rush, but overall, I love it. I would never want to leave it, but being in a house has been such a large part of my plans and dreams for more than half my life that I’m honestly not sure what to do without it. I have been called a “sorority girl” more than anyone I know. Not because I am a girl with long blonde hair and green eyes, but because I smile at those who need one, I am generous with people who need a second chance, and I am kind to everyone even if it seems they don’t need it.

Being part of a sorority has been something I have dreamed about since I was nine years old. My college career has been nothing that I anticipated and even though it has been good at times, I still feel lost. I am now very hesitant in making plans and believing in dreams. The feeling I felt when my dreams were crushed is something I cannot explain; it does not go away. For anyone that reads this, I hope you or the loved one who rushed had a better experience than me. The only thing I can do now is -dream until my dreams come true-.

Nancy - 04/12/12 @ 7:48 am

Aleta! Make change! Use Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr to share your story. Take pictures on Instagram of what you see and feel and share with IDS. You can make change and be heard. You are such a strong person. PHC will hear you. It’s OK to share your experience! xoxoxo

D - 04/12/12 @ 9:36 am

@Aleta,
Yes, it is very important who you know whether or not you get into a house. This is a well-known fact. Based on what you wrote, I would strongly consider transferring after carefully reviewing the school catalogues, programs offered, etc.
IU is very unique in their Greek program and few schools are like IU . You can learn valuable information by talking to students at various schools in which you have an interest. Don’t have your heart set on one particular house. All are good in various ways.

Julie - 04/12/12 @ 4:38 pm

I had two daughters. One went to the University of Texas and one to Indiana. My daughter at Texas chose not to be in a sorority and joined one of the many spirit organization UT has. The student organizations are very similar to a sorority (pledge class, formals,mixers etc) but with out a house. My daughter at UT met all of her friends through these organizations. Texas Sweethearts was the one she was in but there were a plethora to chose from. I was sad Indiana did not have similar organizations especially with the large number of girls who do not receive bids. I posted the links to some of the links for examples of some of these organizations at UT. As much fun as I had being Greek in college but if our daughters choose not to participate (or do not receive a bid) to a sorority there should be other female organizations for to join. Anyways just a thought

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=texas%20sweethearts&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstudentorgs.utexas.edu%2Fswheart%2F&ei=S1iHT9HLIsKp8AG3nYSvCA&usg=AFQjCNEPCdrHsb5ZsLljDBihuUpCl_obMA&cad=rja

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=texas%20spirits&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstudentorgs.utexas.edu%2Fspirits%2F&ei=WliHT96ZNo6IsAKo4OSsCA&usg=AFQjCNEXuYwn-Fg2zhHpUBnuDN2ZI7B5hw&cad=rja

D - 04/14/12 @ 7:40 am

@Julie,
I read your suggestions with interest. Did your daughter at IU get a bid to join a sorority ? The clubs that you suggested as an alternative to sororities are fine but they are not the same and not a replacement for sororities. The girls know that. They are not unique to Texas and most schools have these clubs. Many sorority girls also belong. IU should have these clubs, if they don’t already but I don’t think that the addition of these clubs will solve the problem of the large # of girls not getting bids. Based on the comments that are posted here, it doesn’t appear the IU is in a hurry to solve the problem.

Lynn - 04/17/12 @ 3:52 pm

Aleta,

So sorry about your experience. My daughter had a similar experience and it made me sick all over again to read your post. There just aren’t enough spots for the women who would like to join sororities at IU. I don’t believe you “slipped through the cracks.” Many outstanding women do not receive a bid under this system and the sororities are apparently ok with that. Sadly, the sororities cling to bed quotas, rather than maximize the opportunities to IU women by allowing for live-out policies at the houses as other universities have done. I hope things improve for you at IU or you find an alternative school.

Tanny - 04/18/12 @ 6:39 am

Many of the houses do have live out policies for seniors now. In my daughter’s house the majority of the seniors are living out because they just physically don’t have the space to accommodate all of the women. I believe most houses will end up with a senior live out option, I am just not sure how much it will help. IU’s freshman class is the largest in its history this year. Next fall more of the same. With a Greek system this robust, you will always see a supply and demand issue. It is the perfect storm- a strong, desirable and traditional Greek culture, a University who continues to grow in reputation and attracts a more select yet larger group of freshmen women every year, and a master plan that limits Greek housing expansion. No easy answers…..

Katie - 04/23/12 @ 2:29 pm

My next door neighbor was home yesterday to bring the first car load of items home for the summer. I got to chat with her for awhile during a cook out. She is in a chapter at IU. She said that 7 or 8 chapters have a live out policy: seniors only, if the chapter house is full. A couple of others have live outs on a case by case basis, but she said that almost half of them do not have live outs. This is one of the reasons Theta Phi was able to successfully colonize last fall, they targeted upper class women who had been living in apartments for 1-2 years and didn’t really want the chapter house experience after living out. However, she said that the members of the new class at Theta Phi she knows feel differently. Many of them would like to live in a chapter house. One of the chapters that had previously allowed a lot of live outs will not be allowing as many in the future, they basically turned over the entire chapter in the past two years. She said Alpha Sigma Alpha is coming this fall, she’s not sure they will be as successful because of how many older women Theta Phi took. It sounds like there are enough women who want to be Greek, that more chapter spots are needed/desired. I hope that IU will give sorority life a chance to grow and prosper, and provide some land for chapter houses.

Susan - 04/25/12 @ 1:29 pm

I really hope that Alpha Sigma Alpha has as much success as Theta Phi had this last year. There are many women who either weren’t placed or simply didn’t want to rush or live in a house who might really enjoy all the activities and opportunities a new un-housed chapter will provide. A live-in experience is only part of what being in a sorority is about. The sisterhood is not the house. In fact, sometimes the live-in experience is not all good! I recall a lot of unnecessary drama when I lived in, and the girls who didn’t live in were able to just go home to their own apartments when all the drama would ensue. Many, many times I wanted to live out! At IU, houses are surely the norm, but there are a lot of merits to an unhoused organization too. As for IU and space for housing, it must be remedied; this situation isn’t going away. I do not believe there is no room for Greek housing. If there is room to house these kids somewhere, why can’t it be Greek housing if that’s what the students are wanting? If the university is preparing for housing for all these kids, they could help with Greek housing for the 800 girls not placed each year. And if the frats are kicked off because of infractions, then perhaps they shouldn’t be the ones who have the housing. Maybe some unhoused sororities could have a chance instead?????

IUGirl - 05/11/12 @ 6:19 pm

I wish I could live in another year. My chapter has basically tripled in size over the past couple of years, which forces practically all of our juniors and seniors to live out next year. It’s no fun living out as a junior when all other sororities get to live in the house for at least 2 years. Anyway, ranting aside, I feel like TPA showed that the “unhoused” chapters DO have the potential to be successful. TPA surpassed everyone’s expectations, and as IU takes larger and larger freshman classes each year, naturally the amount of PNMs registering for recruitment goes up, as well. While not being able to live in isn’t the ideal situation for most, I feel like more girls are willing to be Greek even if it means not having a house. Either way, recruitment next year will certainly be interesting…

Lena - 05/16/12 @ 12:15 pm

“I wish all the girls who got rejected could come together and form some kind of group so that they realize they are definitely NOT alone.”

Just FYI, IU has several multicultural sororities. In addition, there’s the Independent Council, which functions similarly to a sorority (socials, community service, sports teams, Little 500, etc.).

Granted, they don’t offer the NPC experience, but they could be worth a try for anyone with an open mind.

D - 05/22/12 @ 10:10 am

Lena, who would want to be a part of a group composed of girls who did not get a bid or is this the Independent Council ? The IC may say that they function as a sorority but they really don’t provide the NPC experience… IU needs another sorority and needs to give more bids in the existing ones. Many schools have much larger membership in their sororities than IU and this can be done. Many suggestions have been made to solve the problem of a large # of girls not getting bids. Based on the comments here, I believe that the problem can be solved when the people in charge decide to take care of the problem. Lots of excuses continue to be given.

IUStudent - 06/14/12 @ 1:48 pm

I am currently in a sorority and the very first thing I want to say is that recruitment is rough. The before, the during and the after. But whatever the outcome may be, it is so rewarding.

My sister went to IU and that is the reason why I chose to go there. Naturally, she is my idol and my best friend. When she was a freshman, I helped pick out her outfits for recruitment and I tried to comfort her when she called me crying because she didn’t get a bid. The same happened her sophomore year, but instead of her crying, it was me because I didn’t understand why she didn’t get a bid. Now graduated, my sister appreciates her recruitment experience. Because of recruitment, she was given opportunities that she wouldn’t have had the freedom to do if she did join a chapter. She made amazing friends and has absolutely no regrets about her college years.
Like I said I am currently a member of a chapter, and to be completely honest, I don’t know how I did it. I went into recruitment thinking that I would NOT get a bid. I didn’t buy new clothes, like so many girls on my floor did. I didn’t get any letters of recommendation because I didn’t care that much, and I have absolutely no relation to anyone in Greek life. During 20-event round, I was completely myself and I got all 14 invitations back. The next round, I got all 8, then all 3 and on bid night, I got a bid to my number one choice. To this day, I call my mother and say, “mom how did I do it? What didn’t these chapters see in my sister that they saw in me”.
The reason why I am choosing to post on this is because I want the mothers whose daughters didn’t get a bid to know that I know exactly what it feels like. During recruitment, I cut chapters that my sister really wanted because I could never be in a group that didn’t want her but wanted me. I cry after every event because I wonder how many girls I talk to that day are going to cry to their mothers the next morning (whether its because of my chapter or a different one).

The best advice I can give is to tell your daughters to have an open mind about every chapter and not care about what other people have said or what other people think about a group. It is YOUR experience and YOU’RE the one who is going to live with your decisions. I would also tell them to be themselves because as much as we all hate this saying, the system really does work. My sorority sisters are my best friends. I love them so much and the thought of having to leave them for the summer or after we graduate is so terrifying. The same goes if your daughter doesn’t get a bid. My sister loves her life and is so happy. She learned so much from the experience. Getting rejected is horrible, but it shouldn’t ruin college. Your college memories will be formed by what YOU put into it. In the long run, you aren’t going to care how your life-long friendships were made, you are only going to care that they WERE made.

I hope this all helped and good luck!

Sarah Lahey - 06/21/12 @ 5:44 pm

I just finished reading these posts, most of which bring back memories of my recruitment experience at IUB. Like so many of these women, I was a high school cheerleader, NHS blah blah… and was not offered a bid. It was devastating at the time. However, I made life-long friends through other activities and had a great time in Bloomington over the next 3 1/2 years. After graduation, I moved to New York where I roomed with my non-Greek BFF from IU. We soon learned that in real life, no one really cares if you were in a sorority in college. I went on to become a successful journalist and author and when the time came for my two daughters to choose a college, Greek life wasn’t even a consideration. One went to Georgetown where there are no sororities and the other chose Loyola New Orleans where there are only four chapters. She did not participate her freshman year, but was pressured by friends to do so as a sophomore and accepted a bid from Delta Gamma. It was a positive experience but she chose not to list her affiliation on her resume when applying for jobs after graduation as she didn’t want to be labeled ‘sorority girl’. She’s now on Ralph Lauren’s marketing team in NY. My husband was in a fraternity at IU but we didn’t meet until two years after graduation and he didn’t even know that I wasn’t in a sorority until after we were engaged! It just didn’t matter. So, I hope all of you moms will encourage your daughters to branch out and embrace all that IU has to offer. Your daughters will be just fine!

Nancy - 07/18/12 @ 2:45 pm

Wow! Check out the NY Times article “Pledge Prep” from 7/16/12.
Indiana University and THIS Blog are included in the article.

It’s a really good read – especially if you’re helping your daughter rush this year at IU! It all does work out in the end for the girls and houses – except for the 800 girls who didn’t get into a house or dropped out early

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/education/edlife/prepping-students-for-sorority-rush.html?pagewanted=all

‘Indiana is reputed to have one of the toughest rushes. Parents have complained on the Sorority Parents blog, operated by the National Panhellenic Conference, that space is too limited. Last year, a little more than half of the 1,718 women at Indiana who registered for recruitment joined a sorority; about 800 either didn’t continue or did not receive a bid. Possible reasons, say university officials: inadequate grades, student dissatisfaction with the chapters that chose them and vice versa, or not enough spaces.’

Sisi - 07/22/12 @ 1:10 am

oh wow, I never knew something like this went at a school. I’m in greek life myself and our recruitment is nothing like this. Reading these stories surprised me and my sisters and we are thoroughly disappointed in the way IU greek life conducts itself particularly with these young ladies. One idea we thought might be nice for the women who don’t receive a bid, Panhellenic should ban the decorating dorms part (we get that some girls are in the sororities but rubbing it in is just disrespectful to the ones who were not as fortunate) and have care packages to distribute to the women, maybe include some pamphlets for other clubs, counseling, and some kind of talk group to help the women meet each other since many mothers on this site want their daughters to meet up after such a horrible experience. Maybe even have a little meet-and-greet party that night since the other women will busy with their sorority activities and it could help make new bonds and friendships. This is not what sisterhood should be about — picking the “who’s who” of college social life– it’s supposed to help women become stronger through college and friendships that last lifetimes. I apologize if anything I said didn’t help or just angered someone. My friend didn’t get into any sororities and I felt like I couldn’t help her since I was on the other side of the fence on this particular topic so I made her a care basket and she told me that it helped her move on and now she loves her club.

ASA alum - 09/23/12 @ 4:40 pm

I have read through all of your comments and it is just heartbreaking to hear. The whole goal of recruitment at my school was to try to get every woman who wanted to be in a sorority a bid and grow the greek system. I am an an alum of Alpha Sigma Alpha and it is a great organization. They just colonized at IU with 101 founding members. Hopefully they along with Theta Phi Alpha can fill the niche of women who may want a sorority experience without having to pay to live in the house.

Linzy - 10/14/12 @ 12:41 pm

A regular at GreekChat told a story a while back about knowing someone who got released from recruitment twice at IU, then transferred out and finally got a bid … at an SEC school.

I think that says it all.

Perspective - 10/18/12 @ 12:24 pm

IU affords an awesome sorority experience. It doesn’t work out for everyone unfortunately. Sometimes its grades, sometimes its dissatisfaction with the chapters the PNM’s have to choose from and, for a few, sometimes, it just doesn’t work out.

Don’t become overly concerned with all the negative comments herein. Go into it with an open heart and an open mind. Make YOUR choice. Don’t succumb to pressure of rankings, reputations, etc. Make your choice and it will be fine.

GOOD LUCK!

Rho Gam - 10/18/12 @ 3:01 pm

As a former RG, I can tell you that unfortunately even with a positive attitude and doing all of the “right” things it may not be find. The Greek experience is wonderful, but very exclusionary at Indiana. The negativity here is only out of concern for those who have been hurt significantly by a process that is unique to IUB. This year, the Rho Gams have in fact, been instructed to paint a more realistic picture of the recruitment process. They will be telling all PNM’s that regardless of recs, legacy status, connections, and the proverbial “keeping an open mind”, there may not be a spot for them. It is simply a matter of arithmetic, and it is absolutely brutal. Even with two new chapters, there still will not be a place for everyone interested–and I am talking specifically about those who survive grade drop and drops for other reasons. As has been repeated multiple times on this site, and encouraged by both national chapter and national panhel, IU needs to do away with their archaic bed quota system and allow (and encourage) upper-class live outs. That is the ONLY solution to the problem. Unfortunately, it will be another rocky recruitment ride this year….

Another Big Ten Woman - 10/19/12 @ 7:21 pm

Sorry, Perspective. I don’t agree. Any university that has such low placement numbers is not a “maximize your options and you’ll end up where you are meant to be” kind of school.

I’m a big believer in giving every chapter a chance, but the situation at IU goes way beyond that. I think every PNM at IU needs to go into recruitment realizing their odds may not even be 50/50 to get any placement no matter how open-minded they are.

kerry - 11/11/12 @ 10:28 am

As an IU alumn I can’t even begin to describe how disappointed I am at IU for letting the sorority system develop into such an exclusionary process. My daughter was planning on transferring to IU this January and participating in recruitment. Because the admissions office did not have her acceptance confirmed until last week; they will not allow her to participate in January because she missed the Oct. 30 deadline. Since when does a campus Panhellenic make these kind of decisions that greatly impact a college choice? I know darn well that options are extremely limited for sophomores. This certainly does not feel welcoming. She has to decide this week; but chances are she is now going to attend another Big 10 university so sorority Life can be part of her college experience. I suppose IU is doing so well they can forget about that out of state tuition? When I was a senior at my IU sorority; I moved out. Back in 1985 they instituted a move-out policy for seniors. Why don’t they allow that anymore? It is good for everyone. Maybe Greek seniors should start a movement. By the time I was a senior; I was ready to move on from sorority life to a more independent living arrangement. Moving out allowed me to develop some basic life skills that are important for post-college life and opened up spots for freshmen so they could enjoy sorority life. I am so soured by Indiana right now, after reading this blog. I sure hope Admissions office and IU Panhellenic is paying attention. Many Chicago-land HS seniors have said that they are crossing IU off of their list because of the recruitment reputation. No win~!

Jo - 11/11/12 @ 2:50 pm

I was in town a few weeks ago for a football game and talked to some freshman girls who are all dormmates of my friend’s daughter. All of them have signed up or recruitment except for the friends’ daughter. Two of the girls are legacies to chapters at IU, but not direct legacies to the IU chapter. They said they wrote it down on their rush forms. I asked if either girl had been invited to the chapter house yet and neither had been invited to a pre-rush event. Then I asked them if their relatives had sent in the paperwork to their chapters and both said no. So, for any of you out there reading this, please make sure if you’re the PNM make sure your relative has sent in the proper paperwork from the national’s website. If not, you may not be given the same consideration as a verified legacy because the chapter has no verification from your relative. If you are the Greek relative, please make sure you send in the proper paperwork for you PNM. Most chapters at IU have numerous legacies going through recruitment, some will have over 100.

Good luck to all of the PNMs going through open house in a few weeks! Remember to rank wisely and keep your options open.

IU Grad - 11/21/12 @ 8:35 pm

Kerry-

Unless your daughter is at school now, the first round of recruitment is the first weekend of December with the 21 party. The first cuts are when the girls return from winter break so she wouldn’t be able to participate if she is not enrolled now to attned the first weekend of December

Recruitment at the University of Indiana!!!! « sorority girl 101 - 11/30/12 @ 7:36 am

[...] [...]

S Stein - 12/03/12 @ 5:15 pm

I wish someone had told me last year that there was actually a forum for parents to read prior to the recruitment process, I probably would have devoured it. This past weekend was the start with the 21 round at IU. No you don’t have to be 21 – but it is the start of primary recruitment. Yeah that’s right, it happens right when your daughter should be studying for finals. My daughter has lost her voice, because she spent the weekend recruiting more than 100 women. The recruitment process, which means that your daughter will be returning to school prior to the start of classes, is a stressful process. When your daughter comes home for winter break, you might want to be a little more informed than I was prior to the recruitment process. Had I understood what was involved, I would have had a talk with her then. The potential members walk from house to house to house, may not be getting enough sleep or enough food. Being supportive is crucial but sending you daughter back to school with Luna Bars/Airborne/snacks and more is a good way to help her. Remember to tell her that getting into a sorority isn’t the end all be all to IU … although it will be a hard sale. I know one girl who tried last year, didn’t get in and is trying again this year. There are lots of alternatives at school for women who do not get into sororities, but don’t be surprised if your child has no idea what they are. Also don’t be surprised if your child wants to leave school if she doesn’t get in. Try to take this all in stride … and let them know you love them.

IU Sorority Parent - 12/04/12 @ 10:06 am

Rush at IU Bloomington is underway with 21 round just completed! A great weekend for all 21 chapters and 1,800 potential new members! I predict this blog will get crazy busy starting January 3 through Bid night Jan 7. Good luck to all!

Linda - 12/06/12 @ 7:57 am

Does IU publish the data of girls going through recruitment? How many girls attemded 21 party this year?

Susan - 12/08/12 @ 10:27 pm

My daughter went through recruitment last year and was successful in getting her “desired” house. The experience leading up to that was rather harrowing, however. What I discovered is that the process is arbitrary at best. So many great girls did not get placements (nearly 1/2, I believe). I would love to say my daughter got in because she is the best, brightest, most beautiful girl in the world, but in reality I believe it comes down to luck. Now my daughter is on the other side of things and just got through a weekend of welcoming nearly 1800 girls to her sorority house. How can anyone hope to be remembered in a scenario like that? Also, you may be truly wonderful, but if you happen to get a “dud” sorority girl who doesn’t hold you up to their other members, you are out of luck for that house. One of our dear friends whose daughter is going through recruitment this year said that parents got an email that explained the statistics. I think that is an improvement. I told my daughter last year that “without a doubt” she would get in. I then discovered a boat load of doubts through the process. I felt I had built her hopes up for something that could very easily not happen. The bottom line is that it truly is no reflection on any girl who isn’t chosen. I wish all girls good luck and hope their parents are ready to be that supportive voice.

Susan - 12/08/12 @ 10:44 pm

One more thing I forgot to say. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise…it is expensive! We were told some info regarding the financials and figured out it would be about 300 or so dollars more than living in the dorms ( for the year), but that was not correct. My hubby is responsible for making the payments in our house, but I believe a good guess is that living and participating in a sorority costs between 8 and 9 thousand dollars per year. My daughter has to buy mandatory clothes for different events the sorority participates in. We just got 150.00 bill for the latest purchases. We also had to buy specific pieces of clothing and shoes for recruitment. She also still needs a limited meal plan because Friday-Sunday evenings no meals are provided. She loves sorority and we are glad that we are able to make this work, but it is a stretch.

Megan - 12/10/12 @ 12:12 pm

Hello all,

Thank you so much for your continued feedback regarding our recruitment process. We wanted to take a minute to share with you the range of financial expectations for housed/unhoused chapters in our Panhellenic community:

Housed:
Total/year: $7,470 – $10,720
New Member: $465 – $1,820

Unhoused:
Total/year: $750 – $900
New Member: $383 – $475

We encourage you to check out our new recruitment website for more information: http://www.iubpharecruitment.com. Thank you!

Linda - 12/20/12 @ 9:10 pm

Thank you Megan, for providing the link, I did see the statistics. Forgive me if I don’t have everything straight…I’m still trying to educate myself on the greek recruitment process. I am non-greek IU alum so not familiar with the process. My daughter will be at IU fall 2013 and wants to go through recruitment so I am just trying to figure out how all this works. So, this is what I see from the statistics…the current recruitment is considered 2013 so statistics not yet available. 2012 there were 1720 girls registered to go through rush. Of those,504 withdrew themselves and 74 were not eligible due to grades, leaving 1142 to continue with recruitment. 890 received bids….so 78% of those eligible and who did not withdraw received bids. Again, I’m not familiar, so is this a decent placement rate or not? Prior to seeing these statistics I had heard only 50% were placed, but clearly that’s 50% or so of those originally registered. So I guess I’m relieved to see that it was actually 78%…however, the raw number of 252 (22%)girls eligible and not withdrawing themselves not receiving bids seems like a lot. Again, though, I am not familiar…so maybe these are great numbers, maybe they are awful…can someone clue me in? 2011 statistics were available too, so I’ll throw some of those out. 1511 girls registered, 340 released themselves and 85 were not eligible due to grades, 908 received bids. So of those elegible and who did not withdraw (1,086) 84% received bids. 178 is the raw number of girls not getting bids. Anyway…so there were 6% fewer girls placed in 2012 than 2011. It sounds like Panhel is hoping that the sorority or 2 this year that are recruiting girls but don’t have houses will help the shortage? Also, in 2012, 196 girls participated in preference round but did not receive bids (17% of those eligible and did not withdraw). That number in 2011 was 10% (108 of the 1086), so went up substantially. It would be interesting to see how many of those girls only put 1 choice down in their final selection…I think it’s called “suicide”….see,I’m not completely ignorant…hee hee. Anyway, I’m sure that’s too much to ask to receive in statistics as it is probably a cumbersome thing to calculate. I crunch numbers a lot at work so it’s natural for me to apply the numbers here. What I don’t know is how good or bad is this as compared to other schools’ placement? Can someone enlighten me? Thanks to anyone who actually read my whole post…pretty dry reading.

Nancy - 12/21/12 @ 9:19 am

Recruitment at IU has always been competitive. Many people have appealed to the Univ to allow more sororities onto the campus. There have also been attempts to allow seniors to live out and keep their badges so more underclassmen can pledge. Some people are against this. Thus, IU does not have enough spots for the number of women who want to join.

A house that can house 100 girls cannot have 150 people live in.

Some women can join during open recruitment periods during the spring semester. If women get accepted to studies abroad an opening can occur. There have also been situations where there are family or health emergencies and sororities can pick up women who were eliminated during primary recruitment.

Some sororities have higher grade point requirements than the posted numbers allowing girls to go through recruitment. Women with low GPAs from high school or first semester may be eliminated even if the members love her. Also, many chapters have 50+ legacies going through recruitment. Parents can become very upset if their relatives are not asked back to a round; but it is impossible to accommodate everyone.

More houses on a large campus would make everyone happier.

Another Big Ten Woman - 12/22/12 @ 9:07 pm

Linda – I don’t have the information to answer all your questions. I would imagine after Christmas more people will come on here to discuss your comment.

I will say that those are very high numbers of women going through Preference and not receiving bids. Many campuses have gone to guaranteed placement meaning if you maximize your choices each round and you attend Preference and list all your options on your card, you are guaranteed a bid. It might not be to your first choice, but if you are open enough to consider all your options each round, Panhel will make sure you have an opportunity to participate in sorority membership.

IU does not have this kind of a system in place. While it may be true that some of the women not placed after Pref at IU suicided (single intentional preference is the PC term now), I would think it is safe to guess based on the stories shared here that this was the exception, not the rule.

I think it is commendable that IU is being more forthcoming with their information. But the fact remains that the placement rates at IU are incredibly low compared to similar campuses.

christine - 01/02/13 @ 5:41 pm

Wow, the stories on this blog have certainly brought back (some very painful) memories. My daughters friends are going through recruitment now, and I was curious about some of the things I heard about IU recruitment, so I Googled and found this blog. Thirty-five years ago I was a freshman at another Big 10 university. This was months after my mother passed away. I had a perfect 1st round, and near perfect second and third round. I only had one chapter for the pref round, but I liked the chapter and hoped for a bid. I remember that night my roommate (who had gone to 3 chapters on pref night) getting a bid, with the women coming to our dorm room to get her. I don’t remember them decorating my room, though I am sure I would have suppressed that memory by now. That was excruciating, watching all the women celebrating. Sophomore year, I went through the process again, and received no invites to pref round. Luckily there were plenty of friends who didn’t participate in recruitment anyway, and I am happy to report the remainder of my college experience was second to none. In fact, the aforementioned roommate hung with me and my friends (I know, poor grammar, I have just reverted back to adolescence in this post) the rest of my experience. I had a fabulous time, and don’t regret any of it. The truth of the matter, the rejection I received then (and throughout high school…oh don’t get me started) has helped me related to my own children as well as the kids I teach. My own daughter went through the process recently at a school that has the new system … I think its called RFP?? …which means that if you make it to pref night AND maximize your options, you most likely will receive a bid. It is the biggest fraternity/sorority system in the country, and yet 0-2 women were released, although a number of women dropped because they weren’t happy with their options. I hope IU changes their ways. It reminds me of the insensitive 70′s. We have learned a lot about how to treat others since then.

IU Sorority Parent - 01/03/13 @ 4:03 pm

Thank you Linda for the Stats!

It is reassuring to see that close to 80% of the girls going through rush find a house. I didn’t realize that so many girls dropped out during the process – their choice.

Parents – please remind your daughters to keep an open mind regarding ALL of the houses – they really are all amazing. My daughter went thru rush last year and didn’t get her first choice(s) and ended up in a great house. She is beyond happy with her ‘sisters’ and can’t imagine life outside of her house. Her sorority experience has really been life changing for her. I believe that IU’s Greek life is truly molding her into an outstanding young woman. I am so proud of her!

Good luck to all the young women during this weekend’s rush!!

IUmom - 01/06/13 @ 9:27 am

I am the mom of a young lady currently going through recruitment. Hate to refute the stats of 80% bid rate or so, but most every other sorority system in the US offers bids to nearly anyone who completes the process. The thought of ANY girl who desires to join a sisterhood, only to be turned away, is ludicrous. And my daughter, with a 4.0 grade point, multiple community/campus involvements, and membership in a prestigious academic program, who is invested in philanthropy and understands the TRUE meaning of sorority and sisterhood, faces the real danger of being eliminated from a dream of sorority life even before bids … even before preferences … because these houses with their quotas have to make what now appear to be arbitrary releases early to get to their desired numbers. Sure my daughter had a couple of “dream chapters” from which she was released. She is trying to reset her goal of enjoying and making a difference at a sorority that wants her. The feeling of not being wanted is downright destructive. She also discovered that women on her floor are being invited back to her dream chapters, from which she was already released, despite consistently ranking them in the bottom. One possible solution to this travesty: CHAPTERS AND POTENTIAL NEW MEMBERS ALIKE SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO RANK EVERYTHING AT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY!! A PNM doesn’t want a certain house from the get go? Cross reference the preference of the house with the preference of the PNM. It could result in less time wasted for chapters and PNMs alike and allow women with a strong preference for a house at least another look. My daughter hasn’t had the perfect recruitment. But a system as above might prevent outstanding candidates, whose heart and soul for sorority living is truly in the right place, from being eliminated so arbitrarily.

Update Process - 01/06/13 @ 12:47 pm

My daughter’s experience was the same as many commented on above. Energetic, bright, active, smart, beautiful and confident coming from out of state alone to make her mark in a whole new beautiful world. In a nut shell she too was invited back to all her preferences, right down to Bid Day and then devastated when not getting a bid. The women that did not get bids were in with the women that did. How insensitive and crushing! Of the many things that need to change this is a major one. The recruitment system needs to be updated at IU. With so many women wanting to be involved and so many philanthropies to be filled it is a crime that anyone is left out. Promoting social awareness is essential in our world today. Why ever would you turn ANYONE away that wants to be involved because there aren’t enough beds?????

Proactive - 01/06/13 @ 3:18 pm

The IU recruitment system is archaic. Our enthusiastic young women should be empowered rather than held back by a bed quota! Let them all participate! The creativity that these women possess would yield amazing accomplishments! Come on IU, get with the times…..be proactive, fresh and new!!!

Tammy - 01/06/13 @ 4:14 pm

Mighty quiet on the blog this year. Hope all is going smooth with recruitment this year!

Current Greek mom - 01/06/13 @ 4:29 pm

Well today is the day of new lives for the girls going through 2013 recruitment at IU … preference rounds are over and women (PNMs) and sororities are making final rankings

I hope the blog continues with more comments from this year and I hope there are improvements to report from previous years.

I implore everyone to provide insights that will help future participants not just rant on how wrong/unfair it all is.

My daughter went through this as a 2010 freshman, she is from a big HS in Indy and probably most fortunate for her had a brother in a fraternity already.

1. Recruitment starts earlier than anyone will officially admit … the sororities have informal dinner events in the fall where girls are selected to come over and meet and greet. So if you didn’t go to any of those then you are already behind

2. You need to be wanted by a group of current members and preferably have influential juniors pulling for you

3. By having recruitment in the spring, IU gives current members time to check you out … so be smart and make friends with sorority women, you need to get to know the real face of each sorority. One place to do this is the Riley Dance Marathon a mostly Greek event but you can spend a lot of time with them

4. You are carrying the baggage of your high school reputation … Someone at the IU sorority you want will remember your behavior (good or bad) in high school.

5. Last but not least, choose for the real you … not what you think you should be. The women that you feel comfortable around and accept you are probably the best match for you.

I say this last comment because tonight the women have the stress of ranking their final choices, my daughter had to choose from a well known one or one that felt right. She chose well and is quite happy with her choice of the feel good one. Other of her friends picked for other reasons and ended up with nothing or a bad match.

I fully support an earlier comment … To choose sororities like you chose colleges, a reach, and a safe one so that tonight you have choices. Sorority life is one way to gain lifelong friends but it is not the only way.

Anonymous - 01/07/13 @ 8:01 am

While the statistics technically show 78% of the women getting bids, that is not an accurate number. The majority of women who drop out of recruitment drop because they were not invited back to the chapters they wanted to be in. For many, the reason they were not invited back was because of the bed quota limitation. The women go to many houses, feel like they made good connections yet they don’t get invited back. How is it determined who gets invited back? Either more sororities, with houses, or allowing members to live out of the house needs to be an option. At some schools, the sororities live on certain floors of certain dorms. Why can’t IU do something like that? Maybe have an annex for each sorority.

npc - 01/07/13 @ 11:28 am

Thanks to all who share their thoughts, concerns and ideas regarding IU recruitment. Please know that the National Panhellenic Conference continues to hold discussions with leaders of the Panhellenic and local alumnae about being the only campus in the country using bed quota and not the recommended quota/total system. We will continue to try to find ways to improve this process.

We encourage you to express your specific concerns and comments directly to the Indiana University Panhellenic at iupharec@gmail.com.

Stephanie - 01/07/13 @ 11:50 am

I found this blog back in November before the whole recruitment process began, crossed my fingers, and hoped that maybe the odds would be in favor of my daughter as she went through this process. Unfortunately, this hasn’t been the case. In fact, she didn’t even get to complete the process because on Tuesday, Jan 1, at 10:30 p.m., less than 12 hours before she was due to fly back to Indiana, she received a call telling her she was “dropped” from recruitment. We were in shock, to say the least! It wasn’t due to her GPA, which is a 3.5, it was because she didn’t take 12 credits last semester. At 11 p.m., the Panhellenic president tried telling me that my daughter knew very well she needed to be taking 12 credits last semester and even agreed to a contract online indicating she was doing so. I later looked at this contract and all it said was “I agree I’m a full time student.” When I asked my daughter what she thought this meant, in her mind it meant she was going to school and living in the dorm. The president also tried to tell me the Rho Gammas are very informed about the credit issue and it should have been discussed in the many pre-recruitment meetings held. My daughter’s Rho Gamma called Wed morning to apologize and said she never knew this was an issue (even though she knew my daughter’s circumstances)! But the kicker to this whole thing is … my daughter did not start her freshman year in August, but came to school in October! We found out in August she had a major medical issue, needed surgery and couldn’t start school. Admissions, housing and advising all worked with us to hold her spot, hold her dorm room,etc. and let her come after fall break and take two of the second eight week classes. Besides starting late and trying to integrate herself into college life 8 weeks after everyone else, she was going through daily radiation treatments from the day she moved into the dorm Oct. 15 until Dec 5. She dragged herself to the first round of 21 events, knowing come January, she would physically and mentally feel better. And then the phone call came at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday night … No exceptions would be made. I understand rules are rules, but where did this process break down? Why wasn’t this caught earlier? If IU wasn’t so busy trying to weed people out because the recruitment process is so archaic, then perhaps an exception could have been considered in my daughter’s case.

Marie - 01/07/13 @ 12:43 pm

I have been reading this blog for a few weeks and now I get to share another unfortunate story. My daughter had a fairly successful start to recruitment with the exception of not getting asked back to my sorority, which is standard procedure for 14 event round. I guess there was some sort of mistake – right. She did get asked back to 14 chapters and really liked about 5 or 6 and then on the fence for a couple. Next day got the full 8 chapters, again top 3-4 she really liked. Then comes preference day – only one invite from her last ranked chapter. Call home many tears and wanting to leave school. Heartbreaking, am I not pretty or nice enough. Majority friends waiting to hear tonight and we hope the best for all! This process needs an over hall and I hope they encourage Sophomores to participate in recruitment. Now on to what to do next year – who do you live with, do you stay or transfer? The heartbreak is so unnecessary as I have been part of a sorority system that finds a place for everyone! Good luck to everyone.

Lisa - 01/07/13 @ 2:35 pm

This year they actually did four rounds of preference day instead of three. There were so many girls invited back that they had to add a round so everyone got to go to their 1-3 chapters for preference.

Real - 01/07/13 @ 3:53 pm

A limited number of chapters did 4. Just depends on how many women they brought back. More legacies than ever before as well.

Kristen - 01/07/13 @ 3:54 pm

My daughter just completed recruitment too and ended up without a chapter. We knew it was going to be a challenge getting into one of your top choice chapters but we had no idea it was going to be like this. After 60 hours of recruitment, she is without a bid. This has been a very difficult experience. I don’t understand it. She is also a beautiful and outgoing young lady, with a 3.9 GPA and has been very involved in High School and at IU. She had to miss a week of school before 21 round because she had mono. I could barely get her on a plane that Friday because she was still so sick. They told us if she did not attend 21 round, she probably would not get an invite back. Now we are so upset that she went through those two 12 hour days so sick.

I know they say that 500+ girls dropped out last year “by choice”, I believe it’s because they are being invited back to chapters that they had at the bottom of their list.

My daughter is considering transferring. She loves the school and the program she is in but really wanted to be in a sorority. We have talked about it for a few years now. I know that those who have gone through recruitment again their sophomore year, still end up without a bid. I hate for her to go through this again, especially if the system has not changed.

I feel so bad for her and the other girls who have to go through tonight still. The fact that they will hear a lot of screaming and cheering and see all of the girls greeted by their new houses just adds insult to injury.

I also think the reason they added a fourth preference round is because there are the two non-housed sororities that will take more girls.

Anonymous - 01/07/13 @ 3:58 pm

An extra round for preference doesn’t help. They invite far more girls to preference round than they have room for in the house. An extra round just means more girls will not get bids.

Jan - 01/07/13 @ 5:29 pm

Here we go again. And the sad stories shouldn’t surprise anyone. None of the problems here are a secret; they’ve gone on for years and nothing changes. Apparently, it doesn’t matter to IU’s panhel nor IU enough to step up and handle the situation. Who runs this thing? The solutions are easy, and EVERY other university has figured out how to handle recruitment so there are plenty of examples to follow. From reading this blog and knowing girls who got bids and girls who didn’t, it’s pretty simple.

First, recruitment shouldn’t be in the middle of the year. The current system takes away from studying right before finals, eats up a much needed holiday break, and exhausts women, devastates some, the first day of classes. Seriously, two days of events at the end of the semester? Unbelievable. They are there for school first and foremost, not recruitment. By holding recruitment mid-year, the PNMs already have ideas about the reputations of chapters so they already know what they want rather than actually meeting women and making their own decisions. Holding recruitment before school begins, as at many other schools, would give the “lower tier” chapters a decided advantage that they currently don’t have so distribution of women might be more equitable. PNMs might be more likely to select chapters based on the women rather the chapters’ reputations. Who could possibly want the current system except chapters who benefit from it?

Second, the university needs to accommodate all PNMs by setting quota according to the number of PNMs, not by the number of beds in a house. How dumb. This is just the most ridiculous policy and the reasons for upholding it, some included on the blog, are so absurd that they could only come from women for whom recruitment worked beautifully. New member classes will be just as close. Have them live in for one year then let them move out. Have annex houses. The system at IU doesn’t work for the current student body and exemplifies everything that people hate about sororities. I am a member of a sorority, and this embarrasses and saddens me.

Third, the university needs to accommodate the sororities without houses–places for them too. This is what their student body wants. Why is it so hard to do? There are hundreds of women a year who want to live in a sorority house. Why can’t this be remedied? Hundreds of women for years is thousands of students.

I don’t get it; IU is the only school that just can’t seem to get it right and doesn’t even try. New sororities is a great start, but without houses, how can they compete? No one reading this blog is that naive. Whoever is in charge ought to stand up and take charge. There really aren’t any excuses.

Susan - 01/07/13 @ 6:27 pm

I am so sorry for any girl that did not receive a bid. Brings back memories from last year for me. My daughter got the bid she had hoped for, but her very good friend did not. This friend was smart, attractive and involved. It was devastating to her. She, too, had to make quick plans about where to live, etc. She was not an outcast and stayed close to all of her friends who landed in various sororities. There can be light at the end of the tunnel too… do not let anybody tell you that sophomores cannot be successful with recruitment. My daughter’s friend went through again and and just got a bid to her desired chapter … no it was not my daughter’s. Just want to offer a bit of hope!!

Linda - 01/07/13 @ 6:34 pm

Everyone who is dissatisfied with the way IU sorority recruitment is conducted…..are you sending your comments to iupharec@gmail.com and are you calling IU directly? If not, don’t count on posting here to prompt any changes.

IUmom - 01/07/13 @ 6:37 pm

I blogged yesterday. We had a happy ending…my daughter received a bid to one of the charter sororites. She reset her thinking that being a part of a chapter that is all about growth at this time is an exciting challenge. To those who still want a shot this year(albeit low probability), sign up for informal rush now through the IU Panhellenic site. Word on the street is that additional charter chapters may be coming to IU. While this doesn’t often satisfy the dreams of those going through rush in the hope of getting into an established house (this certainly wasn’t my kid’s original goal), but the knowledge that she can help establish a chapter from the ground up is now a very exciting prospect. In addition, in a small way, it does contribute a little to a solution to IU’S recruitment system: adding more chapters, there
by increasing the potential number of girls who
can participate.

A message for the girls who went through this hellaceous process only to walk away with unfulfilled dreams: Grieve your loss. Cry, scream, be sad, be angry. Don’t let otherwise well meaning folk tell you it’s done, move on. Next, this is in no way, shape or form any character flaw. You are all beautiful, smart, kind, caring women with unique gifts and talents that you are ready to offer the world. Grieve. But like any grieving process, you need to transition back to your lives as beautiful, smart, talented women who will make a difference, and not a ( dispensible) commodity in this recent journey known as Sorority Rush. G-d bless you, your friends and your families.

Cinder1965 - 01/07/13 @ 7:45 pm

Hi Everyone,

I read this blog a few months ago when I knew my step daughter would be going through recruitment this year. First off, she got her bid tonight and got her first choice. Thank goodness, I was a nervous wreck the whole day until I got her text at 5 pm “I GOT IT.”

But, this blog scared me. I spent a lot of time preparing my step daughter for how competitive this process was and that she very well may not end up with a bid. Like the rest of you, she is pretty, smart, involved, etc.

I went through recruitment at Purdue 25 years ago and it was the same way, thank goodness I got a bid and loved my chapter! But the recruitment process was brutal and back then 3 of my dorm friends did not get bids and cried until 2 am. It was simply heartbreaking.

I had heard the campuses had completely changed recruitment and that is was much better now (Purdue is VERY different now than when I went through, for the better). THEN I learn from this blog, all campuses have changed EXCEPT IU. I couldn’t believe it! Half of the girls STILL being released???

My organization does not have a chapter at IU, so my step daughter couldn’t be legacy. So I ran around and got about 7 rec letters from my friends from other chapters, some helped and some it didn’t seem to matter. I did get a rec letter for her for the house she joined and they invited her to a pre-recruitment event. She really hit it off with a sister there right away which I think gave her a leg up during recruitment.

Anyway, she got 13 back for 14 round, half of which she really liked. 8 back for 8 round, 3 of which she liked. Then 3 back for preference, only one of which she wanted to pledge. I had mixed feelings about her only listing one when she could list three and I urged to list all three, but she just didn’t relate to the other two chapters and only listed one.

I cannot believe IU would bring on two chapters that are live outs … maybe they will work, I hope they do. But my step daughter had no interest in a live out chapter. It seems there are about 3 sororities where women would rather not take a bid from them than join, which makes me very sad. I wish women would give these sororities a chance, but my step daughter wasn’t interested either…sigh. I wish the inter/national organizations would step in and strengthen these 3 chapters. Even if the live outs got houses and these 3 could be strengthened, I don’t think IU would STILL have enough slots!

I just do not understand why IU can’t fix this quota formula issue like very other campus has. Why can’t they release land for houses….my friend is in a sorority who she says IU has approached for three years about coming on campus but will NOT give them a committment they can build a house. They will NOT come on because they do not want to be one of the “undesirable” chapters because they don’t have a house. We should be figuring out ways for these talented young ladies to be a part of the Greek system, not ways to exlude them. It made me so sad to read your stories on this blog, just truly sad.

I am thrilled for my step daughter… even as I type, she is texting me about how happy she is at her new chapter where she is meeting her new member sisters. I could go on and on, but my blog is way to long as it is! I wish all of your daughters and other women on this site the very best.

Cinder1965 - 01/07/13 @ 7:54 pm

Marie,

I just read your comment about your daughter being a legacy and she got released for 14 round. I cannot believe this.

My step daughter told me many stories about legacies being released early. One of her friends was QUADRUPLE legacy at a chapter and she got dropped before my stepdaughter who only had a rec letter!!!! I was appalled by this …

When I was in my chapter, our advisors absolutely would NOT let us release legacies early. And let me tell you, if we wanted to release a legacy, we better have had a very good reason.

These IU chapters just seem a bit “rogue” to me … do they think they don’t have to pay attention to their inter/national organizations because their system is so competitive and they will meet their quota anyway?

I just think not honoring legacies, at least for the first couple of rounds, is just disrespectful. Shame on those who allowed this to happen!

Cinder1965 - 01/07/13 @ 8:10 pm

Current Greek Mom,

Based on my experience with my step daughter this year, I think your advice is on the money … I have no doubt that the pre-recruitment event my step daughter attended for the chapter she joined tonight helped her get an advantage. And, all of the other things you advise seemed to ring true to me as well.

Sigh, this is my last post for the night! I promise!

Jenni - 01/07/13 @ 10:56 pm

It’s sad that IU sees how things end up year after year but still think their method is great because women stay in the chapter house for three years. Look at Arkansas that had pledge classes of 150+ at each chapter. Women are lucky to get one year living in the house. Look at TCU where the houses are just dorms with sections for each chapter. Look at Texas Tech where no one lives in, they just have lodges for meetings and events. Is there experience any less valuable? No, and in fact they offer sisterhood to more women.

Women are in school for four years, but the sisterhood lasts a lifetime. Why take away a lifetime of wonderful friendships because you don’t have enough beds?

IU is a business. The only way change will come is through $$$. If the sorority experience is important to your daughter, look at giving your $40-$150,000 (plus alumni funds) to a school that better fits your needs. You are the customer and the schools offer services for money. Be a smart consumer.

Katie Bartiss - 01/08/13 @ 8:30 am

This is directed at Current Greek Mom-01/06/13 @4:29pm.

I must admit when I first read your blog I was very angry, but then as I thought about it more I realized how true your words are. I think it would do a great service to pass your insight on to next years Freshmen so that they will have a realistic picture of the Greek system at IU.

Isn’t it nice that your daughter had a brother already in the Greek system. This really doesn’t allow for a very even playing field .

Isn’t it nice that “recruitment starts earlier than anyone will admit”… So If you weren’t “selected” to go to any of the informal meet and greet “you are already behind.” If girls had academic or club commitment where does that leave them?

“You need to be wanted by a group of current members and preferably have influential juniors pulling for you.” So if you are from out of state and taking mostly Freshman classes and live in a Freshman dorm this seems very difficult to me.

“You are carrying baggage from your High School reputation” I personally find this comment sickening but if you think the girls need to know I defer to your judgement.

I do support your comment of “choose for the real you.”

I must admit I no longer have the warm fuzzy welcoming feeling I first had when we dropped our daughter off at IU in the fall. The fact that such an archaic, judgmental and exclusive system exists at IU literally makes me sick to my stomach. Shame on the Greek system. Their loss. (This is not sour grapes, our daughter got bids just chose not to go the Greek route)

Linda - 01/08/13 @ 9:52 am

I posted earlier that IUPHA should be contacted about the dissatisfaction concerning the IU sorority recruitment process. However, after doing some research, that appears to be futile.

The majority of current chapters and the IUPHA know that the placement numbers are dismal … they want it that way. The chapters have been given the statistics and know that if they would allow live outs or do away with bed quota, their numbers would be much better. THEY DON’T CARE. They vote significant ideas down each year. They vote to allow extension because it does not affect them, they know that new chapters will remain unhoused and therefore they feel new chapters are no competition. If there is going to be change at IU, it must come from IU the institution. IU must decide to force that change by refusing to recognize organizations that do not allow live outs or allow bed quota.

Change they have allowed is for the women to visit more chapters. How does that help? There are still X amount of spaces for XX amount of women. NO REAL CHANGE AND THAT’S HOW THEY LIKE IT!! IUPHA apparently does not care and they repeatedly don’t listen to the National PHA.

If we are not contacting IU directly, nothing will be done. Anyone have any ideas on who specifically at IU should be contacted? I’m glad this board exists but it’s not going to advance the cause.

Katie Bartiss - 01/08/13 @ 10:33 am

Linda,
I did send the same comment to the IUPHA. I hope you do get the name of someone we can communicate with directly. Change is difficult but I think it is possible if it starts small.

Anne - 01/08/13 @ 12:52 pm

I’ve spent the last 24 hours nursing a wounded ego and heart of my 19 year old at IU. She did not receive a bid and while she is profoundly disappointed, I am relieved. She is an amazing girl, talented, brave, intelligent and driven. Her philanthropic efforts can be done individually. I have seen firsthand the disappointment she has endured, and it has only made her stronger. So, too bad for you IU sorority chapters. And for my daughter, this shall pass and you are always going to shine.

sela - 01/08/13 @ 1:43 pm

The only way this will change is for everyone to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. National sororities – pull the charters of your chapters at IU if they continue using bed quota. Parents – pull your kids out of IU. Asking either 1) a group of 18-22 year olds who are content with the way things are or 2) a school that is content that bed quota effectively hamstrings the growth of the Greek system to move to a Q/T system just to be nice isn’t going to fly. The IUBPHA welcomed the new unhoused chapters (and more to come) because they don’t see them as a threat, the same way you would trust your boyfriend to hang out with your homely friend for a weekend.

Stephanie - 01/08/13 @ 2:07 pm

Wednesday morning after my daughter was told not to bother returning to campus for recruitment, I emailed both Steve Veldkamp, Assistant Dean of Students and Director of Student Life and Learning, and Michael Goodman, Assistant Director for Sorority and Fraternity Life. (veldkamp@indiana.edu and micagood@indiana.edu) I spoke to Michael on the phone, as well. While he was empathetic to my daughter’s situation, he basically told me the rules are established and carried out by the Panhellenic council, which is made up of students, and he is merely there to advise and suggest things, but cannot overrule their decisions! So I ask, what’s the purpose of having staff with such titles if they have no veto power, no voice and no interest in intervening? Like others have written, why change a system that works for the very people that are in it. What do those women know about rejection when the system worked just fine for them? Something needs to change.

IU alumna - 01/08/13 @ 2:26 pm

To Linda, I see you’ve been on Greek Chat, your last post is almost identical, almost word for word as that of a post by someone called IndianaSigKap. I am in complete agreement with everything you both said! Cinders must be referring to Sigma Kappa, because it is the only NPC sorority at Purdue that is not at IU. It looks like SK might be the next in line to come back to IU, but if they are smart, they won’t do it without a contingency plan for housing. No amount of complaining is going to change to attitudes of the already Greek Women at IU, but the attitudes of the adults can change or be made to change with the right pressure. Put pressure on IU to free up the existing land mandated for student housing under the Wells plan. There is land available for Greek housing, the university is saving it so they can force the chapters on Third Street, DG, Sigma Chi and Theta to move there. They held out and got the FIJI lot. Good luck moving the Third Street chapters, just free up the land already. FREE THE LAND.

Never thought I’d be here, but it’s all GOOD!! - 01/08/13 @ 2:55 pm

From: Never thought I’d be here but its all good!

Hi All:

I too have been monitoring this site for a year in anticipation of sending my accomplished (aren’t they all) daughter to IU. She too has had a dream of being involved in the Greek system at IU. We were as ready as we could have possibly been for the recruitment process to begin. And I will be honest with you … in the very beginning she, and to a certain extent me because lets be honest moms, we all know the stereotypes of not having a house or being in a charter house, only wanted a chapter that was established. As recruitment week went on it became quite clear that no amount of reference letters and for some even legacies was going to ensure you a spot in a chapter of your choice. You need friends pulling for you and you needed luck!! Her roommate’s mom was a charter legacy and she was released! They had to call the Panhellenic Association to do so and they did!! Sadly, none of the women that talked to my daughter got to know her! You CANT in a 20 minute conversation.

But let me say … Sometimes God says no to something good to give you Something even better!

Last time I checked … and trust me here ladies … I had to realign my own thinking as well … there is NOTHING that says the 2 new chapters are bad or the bottom. And further more they are planning on bringing a new chapter every year between now and 2016. Cinder … I’m not sure what chapter you are talking about that makes up the other 1/3 of the bottom houses but let me just encourage everyone that my daughter received and accepted a bid to one of the 2 new chapters and she was smiling, her head had a tiara on it, there was a pink boa around her neck, and their were beautiful women surrounding her smiling and THRILLED to be part of the Greek System at IU! She called and said, Mom I’m so happy!! I have met so many great beautiful women. Activities are planned for the week and she could NOT be happier. Someone, or in this case, some young Hoosier women, have got to be the ones to make a difference! It is exciting to be part of the new chapters and I can assure you my daughter, nor myself who is paying her bills, feel like second class Greeks or cast offs! I think its important to note that I agree 100% that the system in place is archaic. But … its the system we have for now and for the pledges of 2013 its a done deal!

I just want to be an encouragement to all reading this website. Be open minded about all chapters. They are all filled with beautiful, smart, talented women! It is what you make of it!

Let’s teach all our women to not let anyone dull their sparkle!!!

IU Sorority Parent - 01/08/13 @ 3:06 pm

Slow down! Move the Third Street Houses and FREE UP THE LAND? Wow.

Everyone needs to take a breath and calm down. Life is not fair and our daughters who have had their egos crushed will only be stronger in the long run.

Jo - 01/08/13 @ 3:11 pm

I think you missed the point. I read it and thought it meant, IU will never get the Third Street houses, their alums are too well connected. Look at how many times ATO has screwed up and gotten to come back. I thought it meant free up the land next to Kappa Sig and Delts that has to be used for houses/dorms. Re-read the post above you sorority mom.

IU Sorority Parent - 01/08/13 @ 3:16 pm

Thanks for the clarification Jo! Yes – understand suggestion now!

Bailey - 01/08/13 @ 4:03 pm

I see so many here talking about how the system should change and how horrible and exclusionary the sororities are, but I think it’s just as bad for the PNMs to reject the possibility of joining certain chapters because they think they are too good for them. Or God forbid that chapter doesn’t have a house at all. Horrors! Honestly, I see a lot of the people complaining only because they or their daughter got dropped from the “most desirable chapters.” The women who drop out because the top chapters dropped them when they still have plenty of others left to choose from are behaving just as badly as what they accuse the chapters of.

Cinder1965 - 01/08/13 @ 4:28 pm

IU Alumna,

YES! You got me, I was referring to SK…I refrained from using specific chapter names because everyone else seemed to and I didn’t want to be impolite, etc. But I guess I gave so much information it wasn’t hard to figure out! I didn’t realize SK was the only one at Purdue that was not at IU. I have really been out of the Greek loop until my step daughter got involved!

Knowing what I know now about IU recruitment, I absolutely would be opposed to SK to go back to IU without the opportunity to build a house. It makes no sense to me. Again, maybe the two live out chapters will do just fine, I hope they do…but I am skeptical about their sustainability over time once the newness of colonizing a new chapter wears off.

I talked to my step daughter again today and since everyone around her seemed to get a bid and their choice, she is just living on cloud nine, as she should! I want her to enjoy it. But I am afraid she might forget very soon how fortunate she was to get a bid and that there are lots of wonderful women out there who did not. It is understandable how the Panhel leaders, students, would forget that as their rush experience becomes a memory where they only remember the good and not the drama. Like others have stated, it seems like the staff in the room at the university could intervene somehow and help these young Panhellenic women understand the situation.

Linda - 01/08/13 @ 6:56 pm

IU alumna, yes I did get that from IndianaSigKap from the other site. This being predominantly a site where parents get info, there is a new crop year in and year out that are asking the same questions (and getting the same answers). The other site seems to have many active sorority members and recent alum that are very familiar with this issue and who are probably a little tired of explaining the same set of circumstances year after year as it hasn’t changed much. I posted here what IndianaSigKap wrote on the other site because I think she posted accurate and succinct information and I wanted to share it with those of us who are still trying to get our heads around the issue.
Unfortunately, what I think is happening is there is the same outrage year after year…and they (IU, the chapters,IUPHC, national PHC) are used to it. There is commotion right after bid day, then it calms down as those who went bidless and their parents go on with their lives. Then the next year the same thing happens with a new group of daughters and parents. It has become routine. Unless students start literally walking away with their tuition money from the school and hurting IU’s numbers in terms of retention, nothing will be done. Why should it, it’s the path of least resistance as the chapters and IUPHC clearly don’t want to change? There doesn’t appear to be much compassion for their students.

Marie - 01/08/13 @ 7:18 pm

I wanted to follow up from my post yesterday. While the emotions are still raw, we have to move forward. I am going to see my daughter and we are going to work on “what next”. As someone stated above – the only way we are going to change things is to act. My daughter is pretty sure she will transfer – she had quite a few options in addition to IU and would hopefully encounter a more civilized Greek system! We pay out of state tuition – so maybe she will get closer to home! She loved IU – made some great friends (that all ended up in a sorority). She feels lost and alone. I wish the Panhellenic would get these women together so they could bond and maybe help each other through this. I sincerely hope that things calm down after today’s display of who is in what chapter – add insult to injury. All the best to everyone going through this!

IU grad - 01/08/13 @ 9:10 pm

Some chapters if they didn’t get enough during formal recruitment will participate in informal recruitment which is not really advertised. Usually they take Less than 10 women. Call the IU Panhellenic Office and ask to be put on the list for any chapters participating in informal recruitment.

Current Greek mom - 01/08/13 @ 9:56 pm

Hello all, I sorry to hear, once again, so many sad stories…and I’m sorry if my previous post was a bit shocking but I believe that knowledge is key.

So I ask everyone reading this to respond to this question Knowing what you know now….

1. would you still want your daughter to come to IU?
2. And would you go through recruitment the same way?

and specifically to Katie Bartiss – 01/08/13 @ 8:30 am… I too was angry when I realized how the Greek system at IU works, especially for any woman who doesn’t know the way it really works. I am sad both because of how it is run but almost as much for the fact that so few women realize it until it is too late. Is that why your daughter decided to not accept her bid? Was she too angry over the whole deal?

Remember how choosing a college felt like you were on a new path? Well sorority or not your daughter is at another fork and her life will be different now.

Perhaps one thing this blog can do is help spread the word on how it really works here at IU, since it is such a big game of musical chairs … it is predetermined that many women (didn’t someone list almost 200 last year) won’t get placed.

This website has some very useful info and especially the blogs, but this site does not need any cooperation from IU administration, no the IUGREEKs to post a special blog or handbook or warning to future IU sorority potential new members.

Some families may change their minds or not have the painful experiences of recruitment and maybe transferring.

Anonymous2012 - 01/08/13 @ 10:06 pm

This is in response to Anonymous.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, it made me feel a lot better since all you addressed in your comments were very much our concerns and worries, I would love it if our daughter could meet you and hear your kind and positive words. She did not get a bid, despite a 3.85 GPA, and everything else that you’d think will get into a chapter, including legacy … We are sad for how hurt she and the friends that did not get bids feel right now. This is a very tough week for her as she does not understand why. Her biggest concern is that the many friends she’s gotten so close to while living at the dorm will not be as close to her any longer. Though she is moving on, she is having a hard time accepting and understanding it all. No matter what you teach your kids, rejection, after all the work they put into it, hurts. This is still very new, very sad and it is so hard to see your daughter go through the pain!

Thanks for the kind words and especially for taking the time.

Curious - 01/09/13 @ 8:12 am

Have they posted the statistics of 2013 Recruitment? How many girls registered? How many dropped? How many didn’t get bids?

kelli - 01/09/13 @ 9:01 am

My daughter just participated in recruitment at I.U. and did get in a sorority even as a sophomore. HOWEVER! I am very frustrated because legacies mean Nothing here. My daughter is a perfect sorority candidate. Any house would be lucky to have her. She is a legacy and where I am from; unless you are a complete dud or just don’t click…legacies are supposed to be given the utmost consideration. It saddens me that I.U. doesn’t protect the sisterhood of each organization. This is very wrong. There was a PNM last year who was a triple legacy … beautiful … great girl … didn’t get that chapter. Don’t they understand how special it is for a mom to have her daughter pledge the same chapter? Very disappointed.

Lally - 01/09/13 @ 11:40 am

Yes, the IU system is a mess, but it has been this way for 30 years, and there are no easy answers. It will take multiple strategies-standardized quota setting, allowing and encouraging live-outs,a close examination of recruitment timing,and more support for unhoused chapters to name a few. No one thing is a silver bullet here; it is difficult to change ingrained culture, but alumnae and inter/national organizations have to make the effort to set the tone–this is not something that “the university” can control, if a university allows a Greek system on their campus, they must also allow a certain amount of autonomy. Believe me, the admissions office and student affairs are frustrated and disgusted with the impact this has on admission recruitment and retention of wonderful and talented young women.

In addition, there are two sides to the legacy conundrum. As another poster noted–legacy status and the weight that it carries depends completely on the chapter. There are inter/national organizations where legacy status is SO important that it overrides chapter preference. My daughter did not pledge my chapter (or her grandmother’s chapter). She had an opportunity to accept a bid from another chapter and is extremely happy there, however, the chapter she is in places a huge emphasis on legacies and was allowed to release very few. This limited slots for non-legacy PNM’s and was extremely difficult for those members who connected with them.

cinder1965 - 01/09/13 @ 12:03 pm

Never thought….but it’s good,

I was referring to 3 chapters that seem to be particularly weak, in that women would rather not pledge at all than take their bid. Not 1/3 are bottom chapters, big difference. I have gathered this from talking to my step daughter about what she and her dorm mates were doing in their rankings. One chapter of the three in particular seemed to struggle a lot. And, these are all chapters with houses … But I am only talking to a few women going through recruitment, so maybe that is wrong.

Bailey,

I couldn’t agree more!!! I was frustrated with my own step daughter for only ranking one chapter at pref when she could rank three. I asked her if she was sure, etc. and to be open minded … she assured me that the one was the only one she could see herself in. Sigh. It worked out for her, but clearly it doesn’t always.

How can these three chapters be strengthened so women won’t look them over??? I don’t know …….blah….it should be this hard to provide women with a great support system in college. It’s not for the men!!!

Parent - 01/09/13 @ 12:21 pm

@Bailey –

People are not complaining that the sororities are exclusionary. We are complaining that the process forces them to base their offers to PNMs on numbers not on who they want to see in their house. Many girls are not invited back because to chapter, top or otherwise, because there are simply way more women participating in recruitment than available spots in any of the sororities. If the rules regarding living in the house changed, there could be bigger new member classes.

Parent - 01/09/13 @ 12:24 pm

@Cinder1965

While there may be three chapters at the bottom of the list, there are still plenty of PNMs who are listing those chapters since I assume they have full pledge classes. If not, they would likely have offered snap bids.

Cyndi - 01/09/13 @ 12:35 pm

Could someone please explain how my freshman daughter’s room mate, who is on academic probation after one semester at IU received a snap bid? Isn’t there a minimum GPA requirement? how is this fair to the girls who actually have the required GPA?

Stephanie - 01/09/13 @ 1:07 pm

The recent posts are most disturbing to read – especially as an IU alum and a mother of a daughter who experienced in 2008 the disappointment of IU recruitment noted on this site. Like so many, she was an outstanding out-of-state student (with academic scholarship), a great resume of high school involvement and got involved on IU campus first semester, had several recs and was a legacy at MY IU chapter. These problems cited on this site are never going to change unless IU administration steps in and takes control of Panhellenic – as quoted in Tuesday’s IDS, an example of their backward mindset:

“IU places girls based on a unique quota-setting system and is the only campus to use it,” PHA Vice President of Recruitment Megan Allardt said. “Other campuses place girls based on the number of girls who sign up for recruitment divided by the number of chapters, which is called a total quota-setting system. We do it differently because it is the way we have always done it.”

The last sentence is proof that IU Panhellenic has no intent to change and they should not be proud of their system “because it is the way we have always done it”!

IU needs to abolish the bed quota system, and change recruitment to early Fall (Purdue is on this system now,and many SEC schools). This takes place 3 weeks into the semester (a slower time) and also abolishes the sororities inviting women over for dinner first semester and making decisions before 21 event round. In addition, NPC groups need to encourage chapters not to drop legacies (and if quota were raised this would be possible).

To Marie, encourage your daughter to transfer! My daughter transferred to a SEC school, had a wonderful recruitment and loved sorority life at her new school.

cinder1965 - 01/09/13 @ 1:14 pm

Oops, in my last sentence of my last post, I meant to say “it should not be so hard”.

Rho Gam- - 01/09/13 @ 4:01 pm

To the posters who felt the need to label ” bottom 3″ or “struggling” chapters. EVERYONE made quota. Snap bids were extended by a few houses who had bids rescinded by PNM’s for a variety of reasons. We need to stop viewing chapters in the context of tiers; weak, strong, etc., When you buy into that, you perpetuate the elitest attitude. In reality each new member class is unique, so the composition of the chapter changes every year. There are many, many women who rank order for the right reasons – comfort, connection, ” feels like home”, and they often select sororities which you may not consider top tier in lieu of those that you think are “better.”As Rho Gams we focus every ounce of our energy on trying to dispel those perspectives. When you label chapters, you minimize the excitement, joy, and celebration of anyone who received a bid ANYWHERE. Given the competitive nature of the IU system, I assure you that they are grateful they did!

Concerned Mom - 01/09/13 @ 5:00 pm

My daughter just went through recruitment … 4.3 in high school and 4.0 at IU fall semester. She is in the Honors College, and has multiple scholarships for her previous achievements (although we are still paying plenty due to out-of-state tuition). She attended 11 events, then 8 events, and then 3 pref events. She listened to all the actives tell her how this would be the greatest experience of her life, and the source of lifelong friendships. She put all 3 on her final list (she has a favorite but would have accepted a bid from any of the 3). She got nothing. She was devastated. She feels that a huge part of the college experience was simply taken from her. She continues to hear all the excitement, see all the women wearing their new sweatshirts, seeing her other friends make plans for parties and celebrations, and feels completely isolated. The Rho Gamma was sympathetic, but my daughter cannot express all of her feelings to someone who is part of the system that just kicked her to the curb.

She has not talked with one other woman in her situation. Why is there no way to get some of these women together (at least those that would want to meet others)? She is scrambling to find living arrangements for next year. We are from California, and until now, she absolutely loved IU, but is now lonely and disallusioned.

I have spoken with the inter/national office of the chapter that she was a legacy to, and several administrators at IU. They were all pleasant, but treated this as if it is just a blip in the road, rather than the deep lasting trauma that it is. I have emailed Panhellenic 3 times, and have not even gotten the courtesy of a response. She does not want to change schools due to the particular program she is in, but I have never heard such devastation in her voice. She will get involved in other activities, but they are not a substitute for the sorority experience. Any other suggestions? I feel helpless to improve the situation.

nosisterhood - 01/09/13 @ 5:54 pm

I was in a sorority at IU bloomington.
In my opinion the word “sisterhood” should be taken lightly..If “sisterhood” was real, then “sisters” ( legacy ) would always be considereed and accepted if all requirements are met for that chapter. That’s what a true sister would do. If you are a legacy and going through recruitment at IU, it really doesn’t help your chances to get into that chapter.. Sisterhood? Really? I know of legacy’s of IU bloomington that were released..sorry but that is not sisterhood
Also, it is in my opinion that the sororities at IU are now more like high school “cliques”… on a litttle larger scale…so if you didn’t get into a chapter, or if your daughter or friend didn’t get into a chapter…she may be luckier than you think..The IU recruitment system gets an “F” in my opinion

nosisterhood - 01/09/13 @ 6:08 pm

let me claify..I realize you are not really a “sister” until you are an initiated member of a chapter, but to me… a legacy is a “relative” of your “sister” so in a way… that legacy is related to you by a bond…

Iu mom - 01/09/13 @ 7:28 pm

Thank you thank you thank you to the rho gamma!!

You are exactly right – these parents /moms that tell their daughters they are too good for this chapter or another are a huge problem at this campus!

All sororities at iu are fabulous even the new ones.

Cyndi - 01/09/13 @ 7:29 pm

Hmmm….nobody seems to want to answer my question….wonder what that means….

Iu mom - 01/09/13 @ 7:31 pm

Oh and cindi there is NO way a girl without the required 2.7 GPA got a snapbid.

cinder1965 - 01/09/13 @ 7:31 pm

@Rho gam,

Let me be clear, I was sharing what my impression of chapters was based on what my step daughter and her dorm mates were telling me how THEY were viewing things. If this small group was in the minority and that is not how Pmn s viewed things, I am thrilled!!!

I am in total agreement about the ranking, etc. that you described. I can’t stand that and wish it would stop. If you read my posts, I urged my stepdaughter not to buy into those games and to keep an open mind. I really was expressing my frustration that as much as I talked to her about that (and I am sure her Rho gam did too), there were two chapters she was unwilling to rank. I’d like to think it was because she truly didn’t feel right there, but I suspect it largely had to do with she perceived they were weak.

I think everything should be done to counsel girls not to think like that, but we have to realize the “talk” is there and these women are hearing it.

If all of the houses made quota and have full pledge classes, that is terrific news!!!!! As it should be.

cinder1965 - 01/09/13 @ 7:39 pm

Cyndi,

Maybe Rho Gam can answer…..wow that seems really strange. If this girl is on academic probation, she would not have even come early to finish recruitment, right???

Iu student - 01/09/13 @ 8:10 pm

I am a sister of a chapter that is considered a bottom tier and our house struggled for a few years to get numbers and for the past three years we have taken larger pledge classes than the majority of others. We have a large house that has alot of space so we can fit alot of women and we have a live out policy. We took 83 new members and took over 70 last year. These are all great members! Too many pnms focus on the name rather than realizing that you will find people in each chapter you love and people you don’t love. When you play that name game too much you can really miss out and get your feelings hurt since the “top” chapters take the smallest pledge classes because they are the oldest and smallest houses on campus.

Cyndi - 01/09/13 @ 8:34 pm

@ cinder1965- no, she did not come back early. Speaks to the process being more than unfair IMHO!

rho gam 2 - 01/09/13 @ 9:18 pm

Was the PNM a sophomore? If so, her cumulative GPA may have been considered . If she was a freshman, I mean no respect, but I can tell you that women are consistently released by Panhellenic if they do not meet the minimum GPA. This is not arbitrary, and the GPA criteria is equitably applied. I am confused- how could this girl have even qualified for recruitment if she was on “academic probation” and if she did not go through recruitment, she would not qualify for a snap. There are some pieces missing here. The only time I have seen a GPA exception is with an incomplete in the case of illness or family crisis, etc. the goal is to make sure that chapter members can balance greek life demands with academics.

sela - 01/09/13 @ 9:55 pm

@Stephanie: I have no doubt that Michael G as the assistant director of GL is unable to change things himself. The student life director may not be able to either. However, a dictate most certainly can come from higher up that would override any Panhellenic vote. They could also do kind of what the US government did when they said anyone who didn’t adopt the 21 year old drinking age would lose their federal highway funding. i.e., they could say that any sorority that doesn’t allow juniors and seniors to live out will lose their status as a recognized student organization.

@kelli: it’s possible that your daughter and the triple legacy you mentioned also just “didn’t click” with their legacy chapters, no matter how wonderful they are. In your daughter’s case, she received a bid to another group. Be happy for that, and let it go.

@cyndi: There may be extenuating factors regarding grades, or the “probation” may simply be an incomplete class factored in. At any rate, if a group wants to take a grade risk on a girl, that is their prerogative. This happens at many schools, not just IU.

rho gam 2 - 01/09/13 @ 10:14 pm

Again- and this important; individual chapters may have higher GPA requirements, but not lower ones then are designated by Panhellenic. If a PNM does not meet the GPA criteria to participate, it does not matter whether or not a chapter is willing to take a chance on them.

Bailey - 01/10/13 @ 12:30 am

@kelli
There are many chapters that have far more legacies coming through than available bids. This is true at IU as well as many other super competitive schools. Every generation the number of legacies increases exponentially. It’s gotten so bad at a lot of schools they don’t even able to give legacies a courtesy invite to the second round. Just because a PNM is a legacy doesn’t mean she’s the right fit for a chapter, and the chapters have to make hard decisions quickly in these cases. It’s a heartbreaking reality.

@parent
There are many PNMs at all schools who feel entitled to certain top chapters and won’t get them. Simply increasing the number of available spots and using the same system other schools use doesn’t insure a spot in the desired sorority, it simply ensures a PNM who goes through all the rounds and visits all the houses she’s invited to will receive A BID to A SORORITY, not the one you think you should have. You should make a visit to the SEC schools where pledge classes are in the hundreds and see how many drop out early because the top tier groups dropped them or who leave bid day in tears and decline their bid because they didn’t receive a bid to the chapter they wanted.

IUPHA Alum - 01/10/13 @ 3:57 am

As an IU alum and former Panhellenic executive council member, I thought I would jump in a share a little bit of information to help shed some light on the given situation at IU.

First, I want to assure you that the Indiana University Panhellenic Association is made up of some truly phenomenal leaders. These women are dedicated to creating a supportive community for women and are committed to positive change. For the women suggesting that the community does not care about women who are not placed after formal recruitment, you are mistaken. I was lucky enough to receive a bid to a sorority on bid night. It was not the chapter that I had my heart set on, but I gave it a chance and it was the best decision I ever made. That night was not easy for me personally, I watched my Rho Gamma cry with my friends who were not as lucky as I, and spend her bid night(as many Rho Gamma’s do) helping to console them and get them through the next 24 hours of disappointment. Might I add that the Rho Gamma’s do not just drop the women afterwards, they are in contact with them daily to help them move on. That story was familiar to so many Panhellenic women at IU that three years ago it became abundantly clear that something had to be done from the collegiate level.

Please know that the IU Panhellenic Association is working very hard to try to find a way to meet the demand of women wanting to participate in NPC sororities at IU. I’m sure you all know change does not happen overnight but it is happening steadily at IU now. The IU PHA community voted to form an extension committee in the Fall of 2009. This committee made up of students, campus professionals, and alumni worked together to come up with a contingency plan that would succeed on IU’s campus. There is nothing the Panhellenic or Interfraternal Councils can do about allotting land or offering up University housing for their members, however, with the recent success of both Alpha Sigma Alpha and Theta Phi Alpha be assured that IU will continue to bring on more Panhellenic groups to continue to meet the need.

Also, keep in mind that Indiana offers one of the most fantastic Panhellenic experiences for undergraduate women. The retention rates, not often published by many Universities, are incredible. While Universities such as Ole Miss might offer 100 women a bid to each chapter, they may only retain 30 of those women through their senior year.At IU this just isn’t so. I’m sure my friends at NPC and all national sorority headquarters would agree 1-3 years of sorority membership is not a true sorority experience; a true sorority experience is for life and does not end after college. In addition, have many of you ever considered the risk management concerns that these student leaders face? Imagine being a chapter president age 19-21 and assuming responsibility for 80-100, 17-18 year old women (and that’s just in addition to the members you already have!). The risk involved here is huge and an incredible liability and responsibility for those young women. I wonder how many of you would be comfortable with your daughters assuming this kind of risk? I’m not saying it’s not possible, I’m just asking you to see this perspective.

To answer a few more of your questions:
Numbers and Data for formal recruitment will be released with the next 4-6 weeks. Women can be offered bids through informal recruitment, also know as continuous open bidding, per the individual chapter requirement and inter/national organization approval. Panhellenic does not require a minimum gpa for this, giving women with academic or medical excuses/troubles the opportunity to participate. The Panhellenic Association, just like the other more than 500 student organizations on campus, is student run. The decisions made are made by the students for the students like every other organization on campus and nobody can force them to do anything. Being a student run organization allows these students to foster and grow as leaders and individuals better preparing them for a successful life after college, and I know that this is something Indiana University stands behind.

Finally, I ask you to please respect Megan Allardt on this forum. While you may not agree with or understand her comment in the IDS , be assured that she meant no harm. Assuming the responsibility of formal Recruitment at IU is essentially equivalent to being a full time student and having a full time job. It takes an extraordinary kind of leader to organize and run this process. While I know that this cannot ease the pain many of you must be feeling for your daughters, I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

cinder1965 - 01/10/13 @ 10:06 am

@Iu Student,

Completely agree….you summed up part of the problem. Although I still think IU should change their quota system, I so wish these women would give all chapters a chance instead of relying on preconceived notions. Sigh, I know it is hard to see the big picture when you are 18-19 and going though such a process…but

I’m just glad I have no more step/daughters going through recruitment again. I am pretty sour on the whole process after watching my step daughter go through. And she got a bid to a favorite chapter and I still feel this way. Can’t imagine what others must be feeling.

Linda - 01/10/13 @ 12:24 pm

I understand that women going through recruitment should be open to accepting a bid from any of the chapters as they are all great organizations. However, it sounds like all the chapters made their quota. So even if all the pnms maximized their options on preference, wouldn’t there still be an issue of lots of women not getting placed? It still comes down to there are X amount of beds available for XX amount of women and many of them cannot be accomodated due to the current lack of available beds and the reluctance to change the current system to something other than bed availablity.

IUmom - 01/10/13 @ 2:55 pm

I continue to follow these comments. Two things come to mind for me. First and foremost is the safety and overall health of all of these women…potential new members and sorority actives alike. Everyone is physically exhausted and sleep deprived, and I know that this is emotional distress on both sides, not just the PNMs. Unless this setup is a covert MO to break down ALL of these young women, elements of IU recruitment need to change for no other reason to protect these women.

The other thought I had was that I’m not done with this. But one individual or one family, unfortunately, won’t get it done. Does anyone know where to start to contact? Would the people who have been blogging here get together, maybe appoint a spokesperson, and present that which poses the greatest concerns? Work up the chain of command, if people really feel strongly about this.

V - 01/10/13 @ 3:07 pm

I’ve been reading through these comments and I am quite frankly astonished. Not at how “messed up” IU’s sorority recruitment is, but by the reactions of many to things not working out for their daughters.

Yes, it stinks to be rejected by something you want, but that’s life. Transferring, completely doubting yourself, because you didn’t get into the sorority you wanted? Quite frankly, I think that half the reason a lot of women are so “devestated” is displayed right here by how up in arms their parents get over something not going their kids’ way. For many of these women, this was the first time in their life things didn’t work out. It’s probably one of the most valuable life lessons you can go through. They may not be in the real world, but they’re not kids anymore either.

When your daughters start applying for jobs, and they go through several rounds of interviews and ultimately end up without an offer, are you going to complain to that company’s HR department about how special and unique your daughter is, and how unfair it is that they interviewed 250 people for only one spot? Opportunity is essentially a numbers game. Happiness is not.

There are tens of thousands of students at IU who are not involved in Greek life. They have friends, they’re involved in extracurricular activities, they do IUDM, they have good grades, they get jobs after college, etc. Being in a sorority doesn’t give you an edge over unaffiliated students, though many people in the system tend to think it does. Non-Greeks don’t have any worse of a college experience for not being in a sorority. If your daughters are as pretty and friendly and wonderful as you all claim they are to be, I’m sure they will have no problems developing an “adequate” non-Greek IU social life. Placing the success of your entire college career on whether or not you went Greek is the definition of first world problems. I thought they were there to get an education.

Rho Gam - 01/10/13 @ 3:07 pm

Thank you, IHPA alum. And to all posters–panhel IS doing something. This system has been flawed for a very, very long time, and it is not going to be fixed overnight. Baby steps…..

Iu student - 01/10/13 @ 4:16 pm

V- very well said and totally agree!!! Being in a sorority is fun but also a pain in the aaa sometimes too- sleeping in a cold dorm with 60 others, tryto get some quiet time only happens late at night, costs a bunch of money for various stuff, not liking people that you have to live with etc. its not all sunshine and rainbows.

Nancy - 01/10/13 @ 5:33 pm

Bravo V.

iu - 01/10/13 @ 5:37 pm

Yes. Bravo V!

Lynn - 01/10/13 @ 6:30 pm

Wow V, have you ever heard of empathy? I get that a lot of things in life are just miserable and that you learn and grow from those experiences. My daughter was demoralized and her freshman year was pretty much ruined last year because of her experience with this recruitment. By the way, she had no contact with her Rho Gamma after recruitment. She and our family were left to deal with it. I have pretty much accepted that these things happen in life. The issue here isn’t really about just accepting that some things in life just suck and are demoralizing and humiliating. It really is whether or not those experiences should be offered up by organizations that proclaim to be about philanthropy (which means the desire to promote the welfare of others) and sisterhood, especially when every other similar organization in the country has found a more humane way. If the National Panhellenic Conference thought this recruitment was just wonderful, or that change was just too difficult, this blog probably wouldn’t exist. The sororities at IU really have many positive attributes; their recruitment is definitely not one of them.

Current Greek mom - 01/10/13 @ 7:43 pm

Hello everyone

It is so good to hear from actual participants rather than just parents…such as rho gam and alumni….

We should all remember that these women are still impressionable teenagers…and their side of the story is only that…their side. And as parents we still see our daughters as our perfect little girls.

Maybe someone with inside experience can explain what sororities are looking for in a PNM because some are not looking for your very smart, involved, charitable daughter who is looking for sisterhood and a lifelong bond… They are looking to improve their standing within the Greek system… Ie hot girls to appeal to the “hot fraternities” and get a better match up for little 5.

I saw a quote online (i would attribute it but i cant find it again) that I liked from a rho gam to an unhappy PNM…

“Are you looking for the sorority experience or the experience of a certain sorority?”

Matching up realistic expectations of a woman and her parent to the women of and not the “tier reputation” is a very big part of the problem. The success of the “non-housed” sororities shows the increased success for women who want the “sisterhood experience” over the status.

So I say to all come back and post next November and December so that next years crop of women and parents are better warned and prepared to get through this.

rho gam 2 - 01/10/13 @ 8:58 pm

“Maybe someone with inside experience can explain what sororities are looking for in a PNM because some are not looking for your very smart, involved, charitable daughter who is looking for sisterhood and a lifelong bond… They are looking to improve their standing within the Greek system… Ie hot girls to appeal to the “hot fraternities” and get a better match up for little 5.”

I AM on the “inside.” You words are hurtful, dismissive and simply not true. You said you had a daughter in the system. If that is correct, then I am at a loss as to how you would not recognize that these young women absolutely agonize over this process on BOTH sides.

When you make comments like those above YOU perpetuate the issues. I don’t know ANY chapter that looks at things the way you have described, rather they are looking for those positive attributes you mentioned initially. Most importantly, both the chapter and PNM need to have a connection. They’re are so many fantastic women who get released or do not match. There are a lot of things that can be done to improve the system so this does not continue to occur. What is not helpful is for anyone ( and especially a parent) to re enforce a nasty, negative stereotype, which is not anyway an accurate reflection of Panhellenic or sorority leadership.

Michaela - 01/10/13 @ 10:07 pm

I just found this site after realizing that IU recruitment must have just ended- I wanted to see what was going on. I saw this comment:

“Linzy – 10/14/12 @ 12:41 pm
A regular at GreekChat told a story a while back about knowing someone who got released from recruitment twice at IU, then transferred out and finally got a bid … at an SEC school.

I think that says it all.”

I know that GreekChat regular (I used to lurk there while still in undergrad) and that person it refers to is me. I did indeed go through formal recruitment (and the joke that is informal recruitment) at IU both as a freshman and sophomore before I decided to transfer to an SEC school in my hometown in January of my sophomore year. Within 3 weeks of doing so, I joined one of the top 5 chapters at that school during informal recruitment.

I went to IU out of state in the fall of 2007. Both of my parents were greek at IU and I always assumed that I would be part of that too. I made good friends on my floor fall of freshmen year and was so excited for recruitment. I had tons of recs and attended a ton of dinners at the chapters (including my legacy chapter). I

19 event round was fun, but exhausting. I’m the type who isn’t super outgoing until I know people for a little while- looking back I know this was what killed me. I don’t remember the specifics, but I think I received maybe 10 chapters back for 12 event round, 5 for 6 event round, and then 1 chapter for pref. I REALLY tried to talk myself into wanting to be a part of the chapter that invited me back for pref, but I couldn’t do it. The girl who preffed me had never talked to me before (kind of unheard of for a pref ceremony) and I was still so raw from the whole recruitment experience that my heart wasn’t in it. I didn’t even fill out a card and dropped out of recruitment.

Did I play the so-called “name game” which has been so maligned in posts here so far (of course, from IU recruitment success stories, take note)? Maybe. You have to remember that these are 18 and 19 year old recent high school graduates! However, I really liked and would have been proud to join what are probably known as mid-to-lower tier chapters. Those chapters cut me too.

We can pretend all day long that looks don’t matter, but of course they do. As I said before, I’ve been through it on the other side (albeit at a different school), and of course looks matter. Keep in mind for all of the rest of my story, I had a high GPA, recs, was a legacy, and am very attractive.

So, bid night of my freshmen year happens and I’m inconsolable. My Rho Gamma was wonderful and actually became one of my best friends at IU, well after recruitment was over. All of the friends I’ve made on my floor (including my roommate) joined chapters (most of them, very selective chapters) so they join the mindset that the women who didn’t join a chapter are somehow unworthy. Suddenly I have to decide where to live and who to live with. Ultimately (and I recommend this for any of the mothers of women who did not receive bids) I ended up living in a single in Willkie. It is university housing, which is nice since billing happens through the Bursar. Definitely look into that for your daughters.

Fast forward to my sophomore year. I’m living in a single dorm room and am very lonely- all of my friends I made are happily in sororities and I’m reminded of my failure every time I see someone in letters on campus. I decide to try going through recruitment again. I attend several dinners at my friends’ chapters, where I’m told that I’m even a “super sophomore”- meaning that the chapter likes me! I truly think that this time will be different. Well, it obviously wasn’t. I didn’t even receive any invitations for preference round. I decide to pack up and move back home and enroll at a different school. As I said above, I joined a fantastic sorority (happens to be a “3rd street” chapter at IU) at my new school and had a wonderful experience.

My school operated like LITERALLY EVERY OTHER SCHOOL and used a traditional quota system. This means Panhellenic divides the number of women who got invited to at least one preference round by the number of chapters- this determines quota. Does everyone live in the house? No. Does this matter? NO! I am SICK TO DEATH of IU sorority members and alumnae who think that IU has some special superior sorority sisterhood that stems from living in the house. Sisterhood does not come from living in the house! That’s only a very small part of it.

Look at it this way- you have a new member class of 75 at my school versus a new member class of 40 at IU. IU girls will scream all day long about how a big new member class means that everyone isn’t as close. I beg to differ. A member will have a friend group within the sorority of maybe 10-15 girls. This doesn’t change whether there are 75 or 40 in the new member class.

I now live in Indiana and go to Bloomington occasionally. I am 5 years removed from my IU recruitment horror story and it STILL pains me to drive around that beautiful campus that I loved so much and see the chapters that didn’t want me. Unfortunately, I don’t think things will ever change. The people who make the changes are success stories and are stuck in their ways.

I encourage any of you who are either parents of women who did not have a successful recruitment or did not have a successful recruitment yourselves to contact me at IU_michaela@yahoo.com. I can offer moral support and tell you a little more about what happened for me and what has happened since.

Susan - 01/11/13 @ 6:38 am

I agree with you Rho Gam. My daughter just completed her first recruitment experience “on the other side” as an active sorority member. At least in her chapter, there seemed to be a great deal of emphasis placed on a good fit personality wise. You can be as pretty as a peach, but if you can’t connect with anyone in the chapter you will not stick around and this has social as well as financial ramifications for your chapter. More to the financial, they also try to deduce whether or not a particular person can afford to do sorority because, lets face it, it is expensive. Another biggy besides the personality fit is grades. Looking at pictures of the PNMs for her chapter they did appear to be a relatively attractive bunch, some very physically attractive. Her chapter seems to have a good mix of all types of women, telling me that they did not let pretty reign supreme, which I know my kid would deem very shallow.

Iu student - 01/11/13 @ 6:47 am

Each chapter does their “ranking” differently but essentially the same. There are times when they have to release say 30 percent of their “ask back” list and usually its the bottom say 30 percent. The chapter members are sometimes arguing with each other as to why a certain potential new member should be kept or released etc. at times it is the recruitment advisors ( which advisors are alumnae who could be as young as 25 or up to say 60 years). They may release anyone who has less than a 3.0 even if your grade standard is a 2.8.

Women in chapters get crushed when their favorites are released too. I remember a good friend of mine in another chapter whose best friend was released (best friend was a sophomore who had never gone through recruitment) she knew almost every girl in the chapter and was released because the recruitment advisors did a cut for grades and the chapter had no control. My friend was devastated and couldn’t believe what happened.

Paula - 01/11/13 @ 8:27 am

I am saddened to hear the above comment that “More to the financial, they also try to deduce whether or not a particular person can afford to do sorority because, lets face it, it is expensive. ” I asked my daughter who was on the other side this year and she said her chapter does not do this. She said last year she could tell chapters that were “sizing up” what labels you were wearing, etc. One house asked where she shopped. She ranked them lower as she did not want to be part of that environment. She is not in what many consider a top tier house and does not care as she absolutely loves all the members. She also said that grades were an important factor during recruitment. Even though Panhel’s cutoff was 2.7 or so her chapter had a higher cutoff and many women were released for this.

Bailey - 01/11/13 @ 10:18 am

That’s another thing people don’t understand. Panhel’s minimum grade requirement is absurdly low in comparison to the grade requirements of most houses. They don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by telling them they can’t go through recruitment but in reality a lot of PNMs are being set up for heavy grade cuts.

Cyndi - 01/11/13 @ 10:20 am

Reluctant to continue commenting because I don’t want this woman to lose her spot … but to answer the question – she is a freshman, no Incomplete or medical issues, went through the 1st day of 21 events only, did not come back early, yet received a bid. Oh and no sour grapes, my daughter didn’t participate in recruitment and I was not in a sorority in college either….

Current Greek mom - 01/11/13 @ 12:38 pm

To rho gam 2…or any other one with inside knowledge…

Please tell us what ” makes a good match/connection”. You say what your sorority does not consider (looks or financials) so tell us what criteria they do use? Seems they All had the grades so what else was it? Michalea says being outgoing and talkative is the key?

These parents want to know how their daughters didn’t meet the needs/expectations of so many sororities ( and in some cases all sororities). When they wanted the same things from a sorority that you say you wanted from the PNM…did they not explain themselves well enough? How do you do it without sounding fake or cliche?

I do know that it is hard work and painful on both sides, because I believe that the Greek girls all know the stress they were under as PNM worrying if they will be liked enough to get a bid. ..but cuts have to be made under the current system.

Can you also explain why sororities are not supposed to talk about which fraternities they do mixers with…even if a PNM asks about it.

And lastly can any Greek girls explain why the sororities want their seniors in the house so badly that most IU sororities don’t give the individual seniors a choice to live out? I have to wonder why such Such a simple solution isn’t happening.

Iu grad - 01/11/13 @ 1:39 pm

The chapters want the Seniors to live in because its the sisterhood. The seniors are usually the exec council of a chapter (pres, vp, recruitment chair, etc.), the seniors have the strongest bond in the chapter because they have been there the longest. Typically they are also the smallest group in the chapter because of student teaching, studying abroad, nursing school, graduating early in December etc. so having all seniors live out is not going to necessarily fill 30 to 40 more spots. If someone participated in recruitment as a soohmore and was required to live out senior year then she would have only lived in house one year. That’s not very fun. It’s an experience to live in the house one I will always cherish and look back a lot upon because it was great!

During recruitment, I always liked the women that the conversation just flowed and wasn’t necessarily about the philanthropy of my chapter, things we did in chapter, etc. i always liked to discuss funny stories or cool vacations etc. if it was just a bunch of questions and answers then it wasn’t a potential new member I would take much interest in.

Its important to smile. You can tell if a PNM is not happy being there and if you weren’t excited that these could potentially be your sisters then I didnt want you there.

I would always compliment a girl on something such as a piece of jewelry, shoes or a top to see what she would say. Would she admit she got a great deal in it or that it was a present or would she name drop and say “well its from Saxs Fifth Avenue”.

At times you cant explain why a woman was cut. If the PNM was in say the bottom 50 women that they would ask back after their releases but the pnm didn’t rank the chapter high enough then a match wouldn’t happen. Say she was in the top 50 of the chapter list but then the pnm ranked the house 12/14 going into 8 event round then a match doesn’t happen. There isn’t always a rhyme or reason. Pnms will rank a chapter high based on its rep even if she had horrible conversations there so then it drops the bottom chapters at times and then the ranked high chapter will drop her eventually and she is left with nothing at times. Its a mutual selection. The pnm and the chapter ranks have to match at times.

Again at times it is total grades. The chapter may not be able to decide who to release if they say have to release 20 more women and so they just decide based on grades

Iu grad - 01/11/13 @ 1:48 pm

We don’t discuss the fraternity issue because that is not why someone should join a sorority. It shouldnt matter which fraternities they interact with. It varies so much anyway and can change year to year based on who your social chair is. I dont want a woman in my house if she is only concerned with who we party with.

Another thing to tell future pnm’s is to watch themselves how they conduct themself at fraternities during the fall semester. Esp if a boyfriend of a sister is a fraternity member and they will point out women who dont want in the chapter due to their behaviors. It happens not too often but women will find out the name of the pnm and get her released. We did it one year because this young woman would continously hit on several memebers of a fraternity every weekend and it was ridiculous how her behavior was. This was a fraternity we hung out at and we found out her name and she was released after first round.

@V - 01/11/13 @ 3:25 pm

I have to say I’m with you here. Yes, the bed-quota system kinda stinks … but the bottom line is that only 17% of over 40,000 IU students are Greek. This isn’t like DePauw or Washington and Lee, where independents truly are isolated and left out. If you can’t find a niche at a school as big and diverse as IU, going Greek isn’t going to suddenly turn you into a social butterfly.

Michaela: You still seem awfully bitter despite finding a home in a strong chapter at another school. It also seems your friend misrepresented you at GreekChat — instead of getting released from formal recruitment, you did get a bid but turned it down because you “didn’t feel a connection” (translation: they were bottom-tier and therefore beneath you).

current - 01/11/13 @ 3:32 pm

And, as IU grade said, often there is no real reason. Sometimes you click with someone, but it is just a numbers game. Sometimes (contrary to what some posters have said) you are a chapter who requires that you rank legacies high on your list and that eliminates women who would have been a great fit. Sometimes you are tired, the PNM is tired and there simply are no sparks. It is not a good assessment–I agree, but it is what it is–I can tell you though that the release process–at least in my chapter–is very dignified and professional. Our recruitment chairs and advisors facilitate “grown-up” discussions, and my sisters do not engage in mean spirited conversations about who is the most attractive or “hot.” There is a great deal of hype around the process and the fact is that it is exhausting, emotional and inherantly distasteful. No one wants anyone to get hurt, and we have ALL been there.

Marc - 01/11/13 @ 4:08 pm

Well, here we are in January, 2013 and I have become the father of a devastated young woman at IU due to their antiquated Sorority system. My daughter is like yours – smart, funny, nice, loved the idea of sisterhood, being in her sorority “tribe”. She got her choices down to three and went to the final events. Her choice was very clear and it would have been a perfect fit. The bid never came.

The system and the responses of “we need more land to build houses” is ridiculous. There are schools with outstanding sorority systems that do not even have houses (Miami University). Countless other schools have more sorority members than beds. It is an “honor” for a sophomore to live in the house (University of South Carolina). Limiting the number of women in a sorority to the number of beds in the house creates an artificial supply and demand situation. That creates an “exclusive” environment instead of an “inclusive” environment, which is what you hear during the IU college recruitment process.

IU is a beautiful school with great academics. The ugly wart on it’s nose is Sorority recruitment and system in place. It is 2013, it is time to change the system for the betterment of all involved.

Bailey - 01/11/13 @ 4:28 pm

@currentgreekmom and others who keep asking:

Membership selection is private and specifics should not be discussed with anyone outside of the sorority membership so you will not get specific reasons. Each group handles things a little differently and uses different methods and criteria. As others have said, there aren’t always cut and dried reasons for someone being released. If you aren’t invited back to a chapter, you could have been at the very top of the “cutoff” or the very bottom, but the net effect is the same: you don’t get invited back. It doesn’t necessarily mean a sorority didn’t want you or didn’t like you, it means they wanted others more.

colleen - 01/11/13 @ 7:48 pm

my daughter doesn’t go to IU, but she has several friends that do. Her closest friend in the world got a bid from a top tier sorority. Another friend got a bid from a middle tier. That girl was on probation for drinking alcohol in the dorms. That just doesn’t seem rite when another friend, a darling girl from a parents perspective, was released completely. My 2 cents.

Jan - 01/12/13 @ 10:24 am

Michaela, thanks for sharing your story. I was in a sorority in college, and you are so right about your group of friends. You can have a very large pledge class, but you’re really going to find your small group of tight friends in that. A larger number of girls in your house isn’t going to change your tight group of sisters. To suggest that IU has a stronger sisterhood than I had is silly.

As for houses, I think they are great because they are the center of activities and it was fun to live together–for a year or two at most. But, I couldn’t wait to move out as a senior. When I was 21, I didn’t want to live with a bunch of freshman and sophomores. I had moved on even though I still loved being in the sorority. I hope IU’s unhoused chapters do well and that the University works with them to get houses as soon as possible because, while living in the house isn’t the sisterhood at all, it’s a big part of the system at IU. It’s hard when some chapters have houses and others don’t. It’s not going to be a level playing field until all chapters have houses. No question about that no matter who’s in the chapter. Although, there are girls who don’t want to actually live with a bunch of girls and all the drama that goes with it. More power to them. We had girls who elected to live out, and they were no less a part of things.

And yes, looks and who you know is a large part of it. I hate to admit it, but, as for grades, we were much more likely to take a pretty girl with average grades than someone less appealing with great grades. We were shallow and young and pretentious and cliquey. From my daughters and their friends being Greek now, I don’t think it’s really much different than it was when I was in school. I’m not trying to be mean here; I’m just being honest. Girls are drawn to girls who are just like they are or think they are. I just try to remember that these girls are young and still immature in a lot of ways.

As for comparing this to not getting a particular job is apples to oranges. This isn’t a job interview for which you may or may not be qualified. There are other jobs, other interviews, and years to find your place. Rush/recruitment is for freshman and sophomores; that’s it. It isn’t based on your major and work experience. It’s an assessment of you. Plus, these girls are young; they are just out of high school. They aren’t college graduates moving into adulthood interviewing for jobs. They are looking to be a part of things; they are being rushed to join a club. And at IU, if it’s something you desire, it is everywhere regardless if it’s only 17 percent of the students. If it’s something that they have always wanted to do or planned on having as part of their college experience, having to reassess can be very difficult. And feeling rejected at this point–living away from home on their own for the first time too–is unnecessary. It’s not as simple as suggesting that these girls just go find another group to join. It is not the same.

I think that everyone here, Greeks and non-Greeks, students and parents, all know that the system isn’t working here. More and more students aspire to be Greek all over the country. IU is taking baby steps, but it’s going to have to double down and make large strides to keep up with the rates. I was in a “top tier” house at my school, and that concept nauseates me. The ratings are like who sits at what table in the high school cafeteria. The idea that IU’s top houses keep their numbers low to maintain exclusivity is ridiculous. They may be too young to realize how phony that is. Sorry if I’ve offended anyone! And thanks again Michaela.

sela - 01/12/13 @ 12:06 pm

I’m very glad that IUPHA alum brought up the subject of retention. It’s one that gets overshadowed by “we made quota for the 50th year in a row” at too many schools. Poor retention rates are one of the reasons SEC and other large schools NEED those big pledge classes – because the seniors have long since left and they need to be replaced.

Of course I think a lot of this is due to watered down pledge programs and not preparing the women for the responsibility of what membership is really like, but that’s another subject.

Linda - 01/12/13 @ 12:42 pm

I can appreciate parents being upset because their daughters did not get a bid and these women have a high gpa, lots of extracurricular activities, leadership positions, legacy, etc. I can also appreciate those who say that women should maximize their options and not get set on one sorority because their chances are higher of getting released. The fact of the matter is, because IU is using the bed availability system there are lots of women who have those desirable attributes who are getting released. Even if PNMs did maximize their options and not zero in on 1 sorority in particular, there are still not enough slots available for all the women who are interested. ( I know, I know, 100% of the women will never be placed regardless of the school). Look at the 2012 statistics. 1720 girls registered, 890 received bids, 252 were not matched throughout the process, 74 released for grades, 196 participated in preference round and did not receive bids, 504 withdrew themselves from recruitment. So even if women didn’t just choose 1 chapter in order to increase their chances, it still doesn’t change the fact that there were 1720 girls (or 1142 girls depending on how you look at it) for 890 slots. Not choosing just one chapter and hoping to get into any of the chapters will only shift the numbers around between the categories of: “not matched throughout the process”, “participated in preference but did not receive a bid”, and “withdrew themselves”. It doesn’t change the number of slots available and the number of those receiving bids.
It does appear that some changes are being made, i.e., unhoused chapters. But it still is not meeting the demand and won’t, at least in the near future. They are taking “baby steps” so don’t count on things changing much anytime soon. So…knowing the statistics at this point, you have a choice. If your daughter would like to participate in recruitment but would not be devastated if she didn’t get into a sorority, go to IU. It’s a great school! If your daughter would be devastated not to get into a sorority and it would ruin her college experience, go somewhere else….most likely she will get into a sorority at another school because no other school operates on the bed availability system. Or, take your chances at IU but be prepared to transfer schools if she doesn’t get in. Just go into it with a plan and your eyes wide open. You do have choices.

Cinder1965 - 01/12/13 @ 4:30 pm

@Jan, I agree with every word you said. A friend of mine and I had this very conversation not two days ago while discussing my step daughter’s recruitment experience. It was like you were there and heard our conversation!! LOL

My friend was a Rho Gam in college (not at IU but she is familiar with the situation)…we discussed these very same issues.

rush mom - 01/12/13 @ 4:41 pm

My daughter is a sophomore at Indiana. She participated in recruitment as a freshman, got two chapters back for 3 event (her bottom picks), and went through with 3 event anyways. She did not receive a bid and was very sad. However, many of her good friends were in the same boat as her, so she had some other people as backbone and people to live with. She participated in recruitment again this year and got 2 chapters back for 3 event. One was her favorite house all through recruitment and the other one of her least favorite. Fortunately, she received a bid to her favorite and is very happy. Many of her sophomore friends went through recruitment again and the majority of them had good results, but many of them went through the same devastating process as before. My daughter is extremely lucky and she does realize this. Despite her luck, the recruitment process at Indiana is still completely out of whack. Too many women are left with broken hearts and something should be done. Although nothing is guaranteed, perhaps encourage your daughters to go through recruitment again and keep their minds even more open than the year before. I hate to encourage you to have your daughters go through something so emotionally and physically tiring again, but if they are absolutely set on sorority life, perhaps they could go back thourh. It does not work out for everybody, as I said, but it did work out for a lot of women.

Jo - 01/12/13 @ 4:41 pm

What if each chapter with a house that does not already allow live outs were told they had to allow at least 10 live outs from now on? I am sure they could find 10 upperclass women who would want to live out. You can’t convince me that there aren’t at least a handful of women in those chapters who have a boyfriend or family member living off campus who they spend the night with on a regular basis. I am sure these members would welcome the chance to live out. If chapters were told NOW they had to adopt this policy, they could COB the extra spots for fall adding at least 150 women to the Greek system. Then they following year, chapters would be able to have bed spaces + 10 as their quota. It may not seem like much, but it’s a start.

Has IU Panhel ever done a survey asking the junior members of chapters if they would like to live out their senior year? Having the chapters ask their members may not have the best results, but it Panhel did the online survey and monitored the results might be surprising to those saying that ALL chapters members want to live in.

Current Greek mom - 01/12/13 @ 5:09 pm

Thanks to all for the constructive comments
both on how bid choices are made and how to decide before coming to IU if you can handle the recruitment process

But special thanks to JO for my favorite suggestion for a doable change….

An impartial referendum on living out as seniors… I believe my daughter and at least 9 of her friends would gladly live out their senior year…but she feels that it is out of her hands and that it will never change. I agree that finding 10 seniors in a class of 40 should be easy. This should/could be taken out of the hands of the individual sororities for the greater good of all

IUalum - 01/12/13 @ 6:39 pm

It’s (some of) the sorority chapters that don’t allow live-out sisters. They do this by choice!

It’s not Panhellenic, international HQ for their sorority, it is up to them, and they do this because it’s “tradition”.

Some chapters do allow women to live out.

Current Greek mom - 01/12/13 @ 8:13 pm

To Rush Mom

Can you fill in a few details to your daughter and her friend’s story?

I think it would be really helpful for the families that are considering options for next year

1. How did her opinion of the individual sororities differ this year?
2. Did knowing women already in make a difference this year?
3. Did she think she changed or what?
4. Would she have joined either of these last year?

Sounds like your insights could be helpful?

And lastly do they provide any statistics specifically about sophomore success rate?

sela - 01/12/13 @ 10:00 pm

Jo – the 10 live-outs idea is something that the school administration would have to enforce (i.e. if you don’t allow live-outs you can’t be a RSO). It is beyond Panhel’s purview to make a regulation like that – to use an analogy, it would be like a mall’s head office telling every store that they had to start carrying petite size clothing.

rho gam 2 - 01/13/13 @ 8:14 am

@ Sela
Panhellenic absolutely would have purview over a live-out policy. The university allows the Greek system autonomy with the exception of those issues which are matters of law, safety, or reflect university- wide guidelines. Neither residence life nor student affairs have any control over decisions regarding sorority housing policies. IU administrative stakeholders-especially the admissions office- would love to be able to offer consistent parameters to potential students– and believe me , sorority recruitment questions are very common. The fact is that IU would like nothing more than to be able to reassure young women who are considering enrollment that recruitment, while very selective is also very equitable . Live in- live out policies are chapter specific and the university cannot require, or enforce those policies.

cinder1965 - 01/13/13 @ 10:48 am

@ Rho gam 2, I am unclear what you are saying : so does IU have authority over Panhellenic on this live out policy? Or are you saying Panhellenic does have purview and chooses not to exercise it? Sorry, was not following…thanks.

Jo - 01/13/13 @ 2:50 pm

RhoGam2: Is there anyway for Panhel to spearhead a survey about the attitudes of current Greek women toward living out? I think if Panhel sponsored an online survey and the results were confidential, a more clear picture might be obtained. For example ask what year the students are, would they like to live out their senior year, general location of their chapter (Third Street, Jordan, etc), would they be willing to stay an active dues paying member for the privilege of living out, etc?

Could someone affiliated with Panhel who has finance acumen explain to the Greek women that allowing 10-20 live outs means you still have active dues paying members who are contributing to the parlor fees (upkeep and maintenance fees) for the chapter house? This means more money coming in, more money for social budgets or philanthropy budgets. I would think that TPA and ASA are doing well financially! They are contributing to a housing fund for the future, but currently have no maintenance fees or costly repairs.

admin - 01/13/13 @ 4:50 pm

IU student affairs or the dean of student’s office has no control of individual sorority live in or live out policies…..

Allie Soph - 01/13/13 @ 9:42 pm

I have read all these posts and feel a lot better hearing everyone’s stories. My story(sorry long!): I am a sophomore at IU and went through recruitment my freshman year. I did not have any recs, but was a double legacy at one house, got invited to a pre-recruitment event at their house and made it through to 8 event at that chapter. Apparently at this chapter, if you’re a legacy and you make it to their pref round, they have to take you. I guess they didn’t want me in the first place, but I felt sad to have made it that far. I got two chapters back for pref round, but on bid night, didn’t get a bid. This fall, the new sorority Alpha Sigma Alpha came to campus and had there own recruitment for sophomores and up. I decided to do that, but it consisted of a less than ten-minute conversation with the lady in charge. I did not get a bid from them and was extremely hurt. There is no way to tell from a ten-minute conversation if someone is good enough for your sorority. I am over it now though and its their loss. I did not do formal recruitment again because I could not handle going through that again. I do know some sophomores that participated again and did get a bid, but still about 800 girls did not. There’s a lot of great things about the greek system, but there are also lots of flaws. Many of the women in greek life are in it for the right reasons, but there are some women who are just in it for the parties and fun. It upsets me when I see these women walking around with their letters on because I know that there are a lot of women who wanted to be in a sorority for the right reasons like philanthropy and service. Going through recruitment, all the chapters did tried to make the PNMs like them, but the truth is the PNMS were trying to get the chapters to like them. They might say its about finding the “right fit” but really its all about the chapters liking you. Even though it still depresses me sometimes and makes me feel left out, I think that being it was for the best. I have more freedom and opportunities that I might not have had while in greek life. For everyone whose daughters did not get a bid, just reassure them that it is not a measure of them or their self-worth, its just a numbers game. They are not alone! my heart aches for them all because I remember how difficult it was for me last year around this time. Eventually the pain will heal and they will find their place. Maybe they will find out they are happier not being in greek life. All the best

Nancy - 01/14/13 @ 7:12 am

Recruitment at IU is very competitive. There are not enough spots for those who want to go Greek. The university has refused to address this problem for decades. So recruitment is a competition.

Other problems are with the women themselves.

Every mother thinks her daughter is wonderful. Take off the rose colored glasses and be realistic. Get your daughter’s hair and makeup up to date. Get appropriate clothes and accessories for the rounds.
Have your daughter sell herself to the chapter. She should practice some interesting topics about herself or her interests.
Do not brag about playing trombone in the high school band. Shy women need to practice speaking with people who will give her tips. Talk about your trip to Haiti to work with earthquake victims. Or the award you won at Mock Trial or Model UN.

But the mom needs to get really good photo head shots to give to everyone willing to write a recommendation for the girl. Many parents think their own perfect daughter will automatically be accepted by each chapter. She may be sitting next to a homecoming queen and will fade into the woodwork without using her personality. Or the chapter may know that a woman’s folks are big donors to the university foundation.

Parents should insist that their daughters get the best grades they can. Each sorority puts scholarship first. Some chapters do not pledge women under a 3.3 GPA.

Have your daughter participate in campus activities. She has a good chance of meeting upperclassmen this way.

Open rush is a good way to pledge if a girl has been eliminated during formal sessions.

Complaining will not do any good. Prepare during the summer prior to school’s start. Get the recs in early. Send your daughter to charm school if she needs it. If she fails to pledge it may be your fault.

Jan - 01/14/13 @ 7:43 am

Nancy, are you kidding? These women are doing that. There aren’t enough spots no matter how wonderful any potential member is. Rose colored glasses are meaningless when the math isn’t there. Blame the moms? Seriously? There aren’t enough spots for the women interested. Period.

Cyndi - 01/14/13 @ 9:41 am

Or the chapter may know that a woman’s folks are big donors to the university foundation.
Parents should insist that their daughters get the best grades they can. Each sorority puts scholarship first. Some chapters do not pledge women under a 3.3 GPA

SO maybe this explains how my daughter’s roomie received a bid while on academic probation- parent’s may have made a donation? The picture is becoming quite clear. Glad my daughter did not participate!

Appalled - 01/14/13 @ 10:18 am

@Nancy – Are you serious about your comments? Isn’t recruitment about finding the right place for you? It is not about the “right” makeup or clothing. It is certainly not about charm school. The women need to be themselves on both sides of recruitment. Choosing based on appearance will not necessarily mean the personalities will mesh. Some women are shy when they first meet people but open up when they get to know people. These women should not be penalized for being shy. Traveling to Haiti or other community service opportunities does not make a person compatible with certain sororities. Blaming the mothers for not properly prepping their daughters for recruitment is beyond offensive.

I truly hope your opinion of how recuitment works is not shared by many. It is comments like these that give the Greek system a bad reputation.

Rush mom - 01/14/13 @ 1:25 pm

@current Greek mom,

My daughter did have some very good friends in the chapter she is now in, which she realizes was a large factor in her receiving a bid. As for the chapters she received back for three event, she loved her current chapter during her freshman year but not the other chapter she received back. When I talked to her during recruitment, she seemed much happier and relaxed than she was as a freshman. She said many women in houses even commented on being able to tell that she was older than most of the potential members going through recruitment. She also said she felt that she could connect with the women more since she had been on campus longer and therefore had more to talk about and relate to with the women in chapters.

On a side note, my daughter informed me that all sorority chapters at Indiana are no longer holding prerush events during the fall before formal recruitment.

Kristen - 01/14/13 @ 2:57 pm

@Cyndi- I have heard a few stories of girls going through 21 party but then told they could not go through with recruitment because of their grades…however they still received bids after bid night. The most recent was a girl who’s mother made donations to a chapter. The girl only attended 21 party and then the chapter called her last week and said we have a bid for you. I guess her mom said she had nothing to do with it. My daughter asked me how a chapter could want a girl, on academic probation, that bad after only meeting her for 30 minutes. It also hurts knowing how many great girls who invested their time going to ALL of the parties…were not given bids and had the grades. The girls who do not meet the minimum grade requirement should not expect to get a bid and it should go to someone that met the requirements.

@Nancy, I am glad you did not post this a week ago while the emotions were still raw. I’m sorry but you really don’t have a clue.

Iu mom - 01/14/13 @ 6:03 pm

@rush mom

Sorry to let you know, but your darter was wrong. There were plenty of pre-rush parties. Cookouts were prevalent for about two weeks.

Also, to everyone once again iu did NOT need to have an informal rush as all sororities met their quotas

All we can do is together hope for a change and continue to want to add to the sorority society and bring in more chapters. Many many schools have houses with out houses and the girls are loving it just the same. Be supportive of growth!

Iu mom - 01/14/13 @ 6:06 pm

@ Kristen

If you are correct in reporting the girl getting a Bid because of her mothers large donation – there is a bigger problem than any of us are aware of!!!!!!!!

IU Alumna - 01/14/13 @ 7:26 pm

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If you think this doesn’t happen often, you are kidding yourself. It is up the individual chapter if they offer a bid to a particular PNM, I know of a chapter at IU that took a legacy only after her mother wrote a VERY sizable check to the IU chapter after they informed her that her daughter would not be getting invited back due to only having the minimum Panhel GPA. I was dating her brother at the time, so I stand by this story. In fact, she knew her family wrote the check. She wanted to be in that chapter so much she didn’t care. That is the most blatant instance I can recall. A girl on my floor freshman year was an IU legacy and her mother had not been an active alum since she graduated, but she became really active in the alumnae group and made sure the collegiate chapter got a huge donation which she personally handed them at Homecoming with her daughter in tow. Yep, the girl from my floor got her legacy chapter.

Cyndi - 01/14/13 @ 8:03 pm

@ Kristen- sounds like you and I may be talking about the same girl! I guess it’s not only who you know, but how much money you have as well. Like I said, glad my daughter is happy being a GDI and didn’t go through recruitment.

Yet another recent Rho Gam - 01/14/13 @ 8:21 pm

To Nancy: You are simply incorrect and what is more disturbing is the fact that your narrow opinion propagates falsehoods about IU and the Greek system in general. While the reality is that this is not a pleasant process and there are always those who stereotype and are superficial, your views of attributes for recruitment seem to be written by a high school mean girl. I apologize, but that is how you have articulated your perspective.
To others: I am not sure exactly where you are getting the “academic probation” and “donation” information, but there are at least 3 sides to every story, and I can tell you that unless there are unique circumstances (and we are not talking legacy donation here )the recruitment participation GPA is enforced to a fault.
Re IU: The university has not ignored the problem and is impacted by the competitive nature of this system in a profoundly damaging way. IU admissions is especially concerned. Student affairs HAS and continues to communicate with panhel to the extent that it is appropriate, and changes ARE being made. Expansion is occuring (2 new chapters in as many years) and will continue. There are women who desire an out of house living arrangement and both of these sororities made quota this year. It is going to take some time to re-invent a culture that has existed for 50 years.
Lastly, while I admit I am not yet a mother, I am a high school teacher. I interact with young people everyday– and each young woman is special in her own way. It is indeed devastating for these women when others do not recognize how much each of them has to offer. As adults we have to learn from these oversights and improve the recruitment process so that those who want to participate, and meet academic criteria have that opportunity.
In the big picture sororities are not about “make-up”, or “hair” or what label one wears. They are about forming long term relationships, being accountable to others and giving back; the same things that each of us aspires to in our college experiences and beyond– irrespective of whether or not we happen to a member of the Greek system.

Rush Mom - 01/14/13 @ 10:34 pm

@IU Mom

I did not say that there were not pre-rush events this past fall. My daughter attended many pre-revents events before recruitment. What I DID say was that her chapter told her a few days ago that this coming fall (school year 2013-2014) and for every year after that, pre recruitment is no longer going to be held. A decision made by Panhellenic and agreed upon by all chapters across campus. please read carefully before telling me that my daughter is wrong.

cinder1965 - 01/14/13 @ 10:53 pm

@rush mom, my stepdaughter went to two pre recruitment dinners this past fall, so if the sororities are no longer having pre recruitment events, this is a new policy that starts next year . That would seem very strange though .

Rush Mom - 01/14/13 @ 11:14 pm

@cinder1965

As I have already stated twice, this IS a policy taking effect NEXT YEAR (like I said, 2013 to 2014 school year and beyond). And as I also said, my daughter as well went to many pre-recruitment events. She is going to many new member meetings and events at her chapter, and she was told by the exec council of her chapter that pre-recruitment events are no longer going to be held as they were in the past.

cinder1965 - 01/15/13 @ 8:45 am

@ rush mom, geesh, settle down. I clearly misread what you wrote. My bad. It is really not that big of a deal to me. I was more curious than anything.

npc - 01/15/13 @ 9:17 am

Please remember, membership selection is a sovereign right of each NPC member group and in turn their chapters. Each group has its own criteria and process used for selections. This process and the reasons behind a member’s selection are confidential. This includes IU’s membership selection.

However, IU is the only campus in the country where the number of bids extended is based on bed quota. There are things that can be done to improve this process. We encourage you to continue to share your ideas to improve IU recruitment with each other and with their Panhellenic at iupharec@gmail.com.

Linda - 01/15/13 @ 12:13 pm

While offering recruitment advice can be helpful, the fact of the matter is…Jan is correct. This is a simple math problem. Someone mentioned earlier that about 800 girls did not get bids…so even if all the young ladies followed all the appropriate recruiting advice, there are still not enough spaces to accomodate the demand or at least a respectable portion of the demand that would get the numbers in line with other schools. There are lots of nice, beautiful, accomplished young women not getting bids. Updating their hairstyle, not having pre-recruitment events, etc. is not going to help the problem. The only suggestions offered that truly increase slots is having more chapters on campus and allowing seniors to live out. Time will tell if the unhoused options are successful at IU….I hope they are, and if they are, hopefully we will see more of them. Hopefully some of those chapters can acquire housing, but I understand that is a whole other discussion. It doesn’t appear anyone will take responsibility to get these things done…at least none that we have heard so far. So again….if your daughter’s college experience will be ruined by not being in a chapter, go to another school where her chances are much better. Why put her through this process? All other schools have much better placement numbers, so pick one. If she will be OK greek or non-greek, go to IU and take your chances.

IUmom - 01/15/13 @ 2:29 pm

@Nancy: WHO ARE YOU KIDDING? I can call up at least 4 examples, just on my daughter’s dorm floor, that I personally met who met every criteria that ANY sorority would LOVE to have these some..beautiful, academically sounds, active participants in campus activities including Dance Marathon, which the sororities love to see. Only one of the four got bids at all, and the one woman who received a bid to a charter chapter which originally was not on the “favorites” radar screen. So the stuff about women not being attractive, involved, conversive enough…IT DOESN’T MATTER!! As many of the bloggers have stated, it’s MATH. BTW: Many chapters don’t want to see women left out. The woman who got cut from nearly everything and was blessed to get a bid? Friends/acquaintances from her previous “favorites” sent her messages expressing pleasure and gratitude that she received that bid. Unless it is REALLY evident that there isn’t a fit (it does happen), many women that are released is purely a numbers game.

Current sorority girl - 01/18/13 @ 5:29 pm

I’m currently a sophomore at a chapter at IU. Last year when I rushed I had the “perfect recruitment” up til 8 event. There were several chapters I really liked and then for 3 event I only got one chapter back and it wasn’t any of my favorites. I was devasted but I decided to still go and see how things went. I ended up getting a bid and although I wasn’t super excited about it I still went to check it out. I’m absolutely in love with my chapter now. The chapters that were in my top I couldn’t imagine myself in now. I understand something needs to be done so that so many women aren’t turned away but what most potential members don’t understand is that the chapter understands how they work and their personalities. So when we get a sense of the woman’s personality that’s how we determine if they would fit in with us or not. A potential member may absolutely love a chapter during recruitment but they don’t realize that they would be absolutely miserable with those women because they personality wouldn’t match up. And so many women drop recruitment because they didn’t get their favorites back but I would just encourage everyone to stick through it because you might find the perfect chapter for you. The one bit of advice I would give to women participating in recruitment is even if you are shy try your hardest to push that aside for the couple of days. If you don’t talk we have no way of getting to know you!

colleen - 01/19/13 @ 1:36 pm

I mentioned earlier of my daughter’s friend who went to 2 pref parties and didn’t get a bid. Just recently she got a snap bid from one of those sororities, and she is very very happy. I don’t know what happened…presumably some of the new members must have dropped out. Maybe there’s hope for some of your daughters as well

At Nancy, I too am very offended by the comments. If top of the line clothing, makeup, charm school, hair style, trips to Haiti just to talk about how great you are, big checks to chapter is what it takes to be accepted by your peers in a sorority, then count me out!!

colleen - 01/19/13 @ 1:40 pm

And is “playing trombone on the high school band” supposed to indicate that you are way too nerdy for a sorority? Just wonderin’…I thought those nerdy band stereotypes are long gone.

Joy - 01/21/13 @ 12:32 pm

I want to thank everyone who has posted here. This has been very eye opening. This makes me so sad. My daughter will be a freshman in the fall, and she is so excited! I have been telling her how college is such a different experience from high school….much fewer cliques, more inclusive atmosphere, etc. I’m sad to learn that IU does not really reflect that. While other university greek systems have taken measures over the years to make the sorority system more accessible, IU is clearly behind the times. I see where they are adding unhoused options, which is a step, but clearly not enough to make a dent in the demand, and still a reluctance for all the chapters to allow seniors to live out. Yes, they have their traditions of exclusivity and that must be the way they like it. We are glad to know this now so that we can cancel my daughter’s enrollment. Maybe she will participate in recruitment and maybe she won’t, she hasn’t yet decided. But just the atmosphere that this whole greek recruitment process casts on the university as a whole is not my daughter’s hope for a university experience. As I read through this site and speak to parents of current students, the university has a vibe of “in crowd” and “out crowd” that is worse than any high school. My daughter visited recently and confirmed that. She is now researching her other options. Sad to learn of this, but better now than after she started classes. And no, my daughter is not an “outcast” at school. She gets good grades, plays sports, is on honor roll, NHS, newspaper editor, holds class office, and does some modeling for a couple local hair salons. However, she does not like the way some students are treated at school because they don’t fit “the profile”. She is looking forward to being in a more inclusive atmosphere. Clearly, IU is not that place. In fact, might be the farthest from that place than any other university.

another iu mom - 01/21/13 @ 8:19 pm

@Joy…I understand how hard it must be for your daughter to make a decision like this now but I wish that we had known then what we know now. I have a few entries on here from before but I changed my name. My daughter did not get in a house. She is a direct admit into her major. She absolutely loves the program, her classes, her teachers, and IU. However, it is very big and it is cliquey. I told her it would not be like that either. I know there is a lot to learn from the experience she went through but if you had your heart set on sorority life at college and it is not an option…then you need to decide if you want to stay or go. It’s hard because she is on the right track with her major and got straight A’s last semester. However, she risks not having all of her classes transfer and possibly going to school over 4 years now (or a lot of summer school). She reapplied to a school she got into last year. It’s smaller. The chapters there take the number of students participating in recruitment and divide it by the number of women going through recruitment. That is their quota. Everyone finds a home. It’s great that she has been so happy academically at IU, however she want’s that balance and she wants to have great memories of her college years. I applaud her for taking the risk and possibly making this big change. It may be the best thing she’s ever done. It’s just sad because IU is losing an amazing student who planned on graduating there. So, even though your daughter may have to make a change now…it’s better now than a year from now.

I also appreciate everyone’s input on this site. It’s definately helped me a lot! Thank you!

another IU mom - 01/22/13 @ 10:51 am

I am an IU alum who did not get a bid 25 yeas ago. It was just as difficult then, but I stayed; I chose IU because I loved the school–not the Greek system. I have two daughters who attend IU (from out of state), one received a bid, one did not. They also chose IU because it is a wonderful environment–really a large school with a small school atmosphere. The campus is stunning, the academic opportunities are absolutely wonderful, and the reality is that there are over 30,000 undergrads at IUB and fewer than 20% are Greek. My daughter who is not in a house is just as involved as her sister. She is currently abroad for the semester, and she loves it, but cannot wait to return to IU. I also have 4 other children, who are attending or who have graduated from other universities; one Greek and the rest not, and they will tell you, that as disappointing and devastating as this whole recruitment thing is (wherever you go) you have to learn to control the things you can, and realize that the things you cannot control (like recruitment) are not a reflection of who you are or what you can become. It is a hard lesson–especially when your self-esteem takes such an undeserved hit, but a college experience is not, should not, be about Greek life. A student who loves her program and is getting the most out of academics, IS having a positive college experience. At some point it is attitude and outlook–IUB is a magical place; every university has its positives and negatives–make sure your daughter is transferring for the right reasons.

Another Big Ten Woman - 01/22/13 @ 6:26 pm

AnotherIUMom,

I’m of the opinion that college is about far more than just academics. Yes, we go to get the degree and prepare ourselves for what comes next. But the best things I learned were not learned in the classroom. I needed the degree to be “qualified” for the job I got afterwards. But the extracurriculars I engaged in had far more of an impact on my personal development. The leadership positions, the meeting of people in organizations, the social aspect, etc. were what truly allowed me to grow.

I took five years to get through due to changing my major and, frankly, just not being in a hurry to be done. College only happens once and I wanted to make the most of it. I’m really glad I made the decision I did. My sorority experience was a huge part of what made my college life satisfying.

I wish your daughter well as she makes her decision. If she thinks she can be academically successful at the other school, then the change is probably well worth it. If she were my daughter, I would ask her what she thinks she will regret more in the years to come. Staying at IU and missing out on sorority life or leaving IU and (probably) enjoying sorority life. My guess is that she’ll say she would regret not making the change to enjoy the sorority opportunity. You only get that opportunity once.

Let us know what she decides!

new nancy - 01/24/13 @ 5:10 pm

Please check out a wonderful article at http://www.usatodayeducate.com on debunking 4 Greek stereotypes. Great perspective for all ! It’s great education for everyone participating in this dynamic discussion.

Linda - 02/08/13 @ 11:46 am

When will the 2013 recruitment statistics be posted on the iubpha site? Thank you.

Hawkeye - 02/18/13 @ 2:47 pm

Reading these comments actually makes me shiver. Anyone who says not getting a sorority bid is a trivial problem is kidding themselves—it’s everything to a collegiate woman. Being a freshman in college myself, I know how absolutely awful the entire process can be which is exactly why I’m at University of Iowa instead of Indiana. My mom is an Indiana sorority alum herself, but I knew that wouldn’t help me at all in the process. For those of you in the college decision process, I urge you to look at Iowa. Our fraternity/sorority system here is welcoming, inclusive and fun. I have never heard of a woman unhappy with the sorority she joined and I’ve definitely never heard of anyone not getting a bid at all. Most women live in the sorority house one year, and some don’t even live in at all! While the system might not be as big here as it is at Indiana, I think most of the students like that. It’s there if you want to be part of it, but certainly does not determine your social life if you don’t want to join. Joining as a sophomore is also VERY common. Iowa is a beautiful big ten school that actually ranks higher than Indiana according to U.S. News. Save yourselves the pain of watching your daughters go through recruitment at Indiana and watch them make lifelong friends with sorority sisters at Iowa instead. I would be happy to talk to anyone interested!

Curious - 02/19/13 @ 8:39 am

Can any current IU students speak to Joy’s concerns about independent student life? Are non-Greeks considered outcasts? I can’t help wondering if her daughter’s experience during her visit was overstated. Seems to me that in a school of 40,000+ students, if you don’t get a bid or if you decide recruitment isn’t for you, sorority life would be very easy to avoid.

IU momx6 - 02/19/13 @ 11:39 pm

All four of my daughters attended IU. Two were Greek, two were not. One of the girls who was not in the Greek system was a member of the IU foundation steering committee. The other “independent” was involved in so many activities and had so many opportunities I cannot even mention them all. There is a life outside of the Greek system. There are over 30,000 undergraduates on this campus and less than 20% are Greek. Is it disappointing to go through recruitment and end up bidless? Absolutely–devastating even. No question, it hurts, the system is flawed and there are a lot of changes that need to be made. But whether or not your are in a sorority does not define you. IU is a GREAT place; a stunning campus, a wonderful community, a vibrant fine arts and music scene, exciting athletics and infectious school spirit. Oh, and some of the most prestigious programs in the nation. So to answer your question, yes, yes, yes, there is most definitely life—a great deal of life outside of the Greek system.

Cassandra - 02/20/13 @ 11:01 am

My daughter is a freshman at IU.. Her choice. Not her parents choice. Thus far, we are not impressed with IU academically or socially. Her Political Science teacher was so far left in his teachings that she didn’t appreciate his lectures and she paid the price for not dropping his class, her GPA suffered and she was unable to join a sorority. Though, now, it looks as if it wouldn’t have mattered. Strike #2: a graduate student in the English department ripped up her creative writing paper and her Journalism teacher told her he had a teen just like her at home and she was driving him crazy! She has an IQ of 150 an accomplished writer who now believes she’s worthless. I don’t feel that this is a university that builds confident, independent-thinking females. Many have already left following the first semester and many more leaving this May.

to curious - 02/20/13 @ 9:37 pm

curious, you will get several perspectives on this as it’s a subjective issue. I’m a senior 3rd st fraternity/sorority member so this is only my perspective. the woman who came to campus and sensed the “class distinction” so to speak, sees it from a real perspective of an incoming freshman woman. I will assume the people she knows on campus now are current freshman women many of whom just went through recruitment some successfully and some not so much and they are all still living in the dorms. it’s not that those who don’t receive bids are “outcasts” but i can see how they might feel that way. lots of women come to IU, try to meet fraternity and sorority members so that they might make some friends before recruitment, they join clubs and lots of them are greek-letter member dominated, they go to events at fraternities,etc. up until bid night they are pretty invested in joining a sorority. If that doesn’t work out, yes it’s devastating. They have just gone through a process that makes sorority life out to be the most awesome experience of your life. Then they don’t get a bid and they are told to get involved in other things on campus. There is no other group on campus who does recruitment like fraternities and sororities except perhaps varsity athletics, but that’s another discussion. so it takes effort on the student’s part to get that involvement. effort that the fraternity/sorority member does not really have to put forth because its built in to the system. if you are in an emotional state due to unsuccessful recruitment it can be very hard to put that effort out there. lots of activities and clubs on campus are dominated by members of Greek-letter organizations. not all, but a lot. its difficult if not impossible to “avoid” sorority life. Members tend to be very active on campus. If you don’t care about various activities like Little 5, DM, BMOC, etc, etc. then you may be fine. But if you like to participate in a lot of activities, you didn’t get a bid, you are confused about living arrangements for next year, it can be pretty disheartening. also, it can be difficult to remain friends with sorority members because every chapter requires a large time commitment from each member. so it’s understandable that some would feel lost and isolated. it sounds dramatic but we are talking about 18 or 19 year old women. btw lots of seniors would like to remain contributing members but live out senior year. yes, it gets old living with a house full of women. anyway just my perspective everyone has their own.

IU Student - 02/20/13 @ 9:42 pm

@Joy,
I am currently a freshman guy who came across this blog from a friend. I was not in a fraternity this year but will be going through recruitment next fall. As others have stated, being in a sorority isn’t that much different than living on your own. For women, you can still attend fraternity parties, hang out with sorority friends, and be as social as a sorority member. I am currently a direct admit to the Kelley School of Business, one of the top undergraduate programs in the country, and it is crazy to think that someone would transfer because of the recruitment process, before they even got here. The idea that your daughter said that this environment is cliquey is not my experience. Just living in the Northwest dorms, I have grown so much as a person. I have met people from all over the nation, and world, and everyone on my floor gets along. We have athletes, nerds, cheerleaders, band geeks and even more. But we all treat each other with respect and learn to accept those different from us. I think your daughter should give IU more of a chance and realize that sororities are not the be all and end all of life at IU.

another perspective - 02/22/13 @ 7:31 am

@Cassandra, that is a very interesting albeit unusual perspective. We all agree that IU has some very difficult challenges with its recruitment system. But keep in mind that no school is a perfect fit for every student, and many of us would wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment of IUB both on an academic and social level. I am an assistant professor at a very competitive private institution in the Midwest. So competitive in fact that or admittance rate is one of the top 50 lowest in the nation @ about 20 percent. Here is what I can offer you as a parent and an educator who has been there, done that and lived through the college experience with multiple kids. Many, many freshmen, despite prior successes, activities, participation, “IQ”, get knocked down in one way or another during their transition year. They are asked to adjust to a new and different way of life very quickly, they take on new and unfamiliar responsibilities, and many see a significant change in the social stratification to which they have grown accustomed. While all of this is often minimized, the truth is it is HARD stuff for an 18 year old to deal with. The attrition rates for college freshman tends to be very high, regardless of school, major and academic reputation; however, I need to point out that IU has one of the lowest attrition rates in the Big 10. As parents it is our job to help to manage our kids’ expectations. Are there going to be frustrating professors, courses and material that WE do not find valuable or cannot comprehend, and experiences like recruitment that are acutely heartbreaking and feel life changing? You bet. There are innumerable systemic weakness, flaws, shortcomings within every institution–that is the nature of institutions, and I work at one, that based on your comments Cassandra you would most likely view as more to your liking. Indiana may indeed not be the place for your student, but I urge you not to assume that she will not face the same type of challenges at other universities because I guarantee you she will.

@IUStudent - 02/23/13 @ 2:18 pm

IU Student- I understand your point and I am glad you have had such a good experience. However, I can say from the point-of-view of a freshman woman living in Northwest, not getting a bid from a sorority is a very big deal for most women. A lot of women in Northwest do get bids, so when you are one of the ones that doesn’t it can feel like a big deal. And yeah we can still go to fraternity parties, but its not the same. We wanted to be in sororities (most of us anyway) for the sisterhood. It hurts seeing women walk around in their letters and hearing them talk about bonding with their new sisters. And while I’m not going to transfer just because I didn’t get into a sorority, some women feel like its best.

KC IU Alumn - 02/23/13 @ 6:44 pm

As an update; my daughter ended up not going the IU route after she was told she could not go through recruitment as a transfer in January. Given sorority life was high on her list, she decided to go to Iowa and loves it and joined a chapter last week. For all those women that have been disappointed by IU’s archaic sorority recruitment; consider transferring. At some point IU administration needs to wake up and stop letting sorority recruitment fully impact student life. Iowa’s sorority life is vibrant, but not the end all. I loved my years at IU; but I have to say; the bed quota process is terrible. If your daughter was crushed, there is life outside of IU’ and plenty of opportunity for sophomores to join a chapter.

belle - 02/24/13 @ 10:03 am

Since IU and IUPHA have not resolved this problem in the 30 years since I attended IU, the best solution is to not send your daughters to IU if they have their heart set on sorority life being a part of their college experience.

IU is a good school, especially if you don’t care one way or the other about being a member of a sorority. But if you want to be a part of sorority life very badly, not getting a bid is extremely painful—and foundational. Yes, you can argue that it’s a numbers game, but that is no consolation when you are 18 or 19 years old and sitting in your dorm room while the women who received bids are busy—very busy—with their new sorority’s activities and “sisterhood.” If you have a strong family and sense of self, you can probably overcome the feelings of rejection. But most women at that age don’t have a strong self-identity; their lives as independent women are just beginning. They are still trying to figure out who they are and who they will become.

After I was rejected, I did everything a woman is supposed to do. I joined a student organization and got very involved. I made new friends in my dorm (I had to make new friends because the women I was friends with all got bids, and each dropped me readily).

But even though I did what IU and IUPHA say you should do if you don’t get into a sorority, my college experience was much different—and harder—than I thought it was going to be when I first moved to Bloomington. Sorority life may only be 25 percent of IU’s student population, but it feels like 80 percent because sorority and fraternity members tend to be outgoing and involved in a lot of things. You can’t escape that which you were not welcome to join, and for the rest of my time at IU—and for years after–I felt rejected.

I lived in a dorm sophomore year, and off-campus junior and senior year. My friend group changed each year, because women went abroad, or dropped out, or transferred, or got jobs off campus that kept them busy, or got serious with a boyfriend. At home, my family life deteriorated when my father was diagnosed with a terminal disease and died a year later, leaving me parentless and without a family home.

Of course it is not IU’s fault that my only parent got ill and died, but for me, being so alone at such a big school exacerbated the profound loss. All of my professors knew of my family situation; not one reached out to me.

I felt then—and feel to this day—that membership in a sorority would have cushioned the terrible loss of my father and family home. I would have had the things that IUPHA advocates in favor of sorority life, mainly: a sense of belonging.

When I graduated from IU, I was relieved it was over, but I felt pessimistic about my future. I felt I was one of the “unchosen ones,” for whom belonging was just not “meant to be.” I took a job out east, where most people don’t know where Indiana is, let alone care whether you wore Greek letters.

I have had a successful career, a happy marriage and four children who are presently in high school and middle school. They will not apply to IU, whether or not they hope to be in a Greek system. There are many other fine colleges and universities in the U.S. where sorority recruitment is not a so-called numbers game, and where the emotional well-being of students is valued.

Another Big Ten Woman - 02/27/13 @ 9:14 pm

belle,

Thank you for sharing your story. I so wish you would have had sorority sisters to surround you and support you during the loss of your father. There is no doubt in my mind it would have made a tremendous difference.

I’m glad you have had a good life after college.

Blessings to you.

@belle - 03/04/13 @ 2:51 pm

Why didn’t you just transfer if you were so miserable at IU?

Fall13mom - 03/05/13 @ 5:05 pm

I think these posts support my view that the greek system has grown to be counterproductive to the mission of IU. It’s human nature for most people to want to be part of a group, so I understand why members like it so much. But the drama surrounding getting in, the time commitment to chapter events, and the greek domination of campus activities is not what a leading academic institution should be about. I know this is not likely, but I really think IU and other universitites would be a more mature and productive setting for learning and growth without greek systems.

belle - 03/10/13 @ 4:58 pm

To answer the question: “Why didn’t you just transfer if you were so miserable at IU?”

I wanted to transfer. I was lonely at IU, and I wanted to be closer to my father when he got sick. But my father was afraid I would drop out after he died. Money was an issue, and transferring would likely prolong college by a couple of semesters. I didn’t agree with him–I didn’t plan on dropping out–but I respected him and didn’t want to add more stress to the end of his life. Later, I could have left IU after he died, but I didn’t have a home to go to, and money was tight. The only thing I felt I could do was to just carry on. So I did.

Another question you could ask is “Why are you sharing this story after so many years?” It’s because my kids are starting to look at schools, so I went online to see what IU is like these days. I figured that by now, IU and the College Panhellenic would have figured out how to manage the supply and demand and thus protect girls at such a foundational part of life. Other schools have figured it out; why can’t IU? I am disappointed to see this is still going on in Bloomington, all these years later.

Vickie - 04/02/13 @ 11:26 pm

I attended IU in the mid-90s and went through recruitment. My biggest mistake was not keeping an open mind about the different chapters on campus. I dropped out after 8 event because all the chapters I liked did not invite me back. Looking back now, I realize I did not give recruitment a chance. I wish I would have educated myself more about the rush process and the percentage of women who receive a bid. I was the first generation in my family to go to college and didn’t know a lot about what I was getting myself into. (If only the internet and this website had been available back then!) I have read through many of the comments made by various young ladies or their mothers about the recruitment experience and have felt many of these feelings as well. Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

Susan - 04/08/13 @ 8:46 am

Hi everyone. I attended IU back in the 80′s and joined a sorority that sadly is no longer on the campus. I don’t remember having to cap at a certain number. In fact, we were always wanting more new members. Yes, there was a certain number of beds in the house, but we had many women living off campus or at an annex house. Life has become so competitive that it is shattering dreams that these girls have had for a long time.

Newbie - 04/21/13 @ 8:58 am

My daughter will start at IU in the fall. She is very excited about recruitment and enjoying sorority life. The question I have is how much does she have to comply with what the group wants to do after joining, even if she doesn’t agree with it?

The reason I ask is there is news of a sorority putting on a “homeless” theme party during little 500 week. My daughter would love dress up and theme parties, but would not want to participate in something as distasteful as this. Can she sit out the party?

Also, how can she detect a sorority that might do this during recruitment, when everyone is putting their best foot forward? This sorority has a good reputation as far as I can tell, having recently won university awards for ethics and leadership.

Mandy - 04/23/13 @ 1:10 pm

I’m addressing my comments to the mom worried about the theme parties. The “homeless” party sorority is actually a pretty tame group. Another group has a “Rags to Riches” theme party that is similar. I’m not excusing the behavior, but theme parties are common at IU. If you want to do some checking, look up #little500 on Instagram and you can see pictures and individual profiles of members having fun. Go to a tailgate and observe how these people act outside of the houses. Will your daughter be forced to attend parties? No. Will she be expected to participate? Yes—because it’s a sisterhood event. I was never into these parties, so I helped with the planning (made decorations, etc)if I didn’t want to go.

@Newbie - 04/24/13 @ 7:24 pm

Newbie- Your daughter certainly can sit out certain parties, Im sure not everyone in that sorority went to that party. Every weekend, there are different theme parties and I’m sure now after this incident, Panhel and IFC will be on high alert to make sure these kinds of parties don’t happen again. As for how your daughter will know which sororities will do things like this, there’s really just no way to know. There’s rumors and things, but your daughter should just be herself during recruitment and find a place where she will fit in. Best of luck to her!

IUKC - 04/26/13 @ 5:02 pm

Sad…2 of my neighbors were thinking about IU; but given their sorority system; both women decided on different school. IU is losing students…sure it is a good school; but there are plenty of good schools that offer women an opportunity to fully participate in sorority life.

IU Panhel Alum - 04/26/13 @ 5:26 pm

First of all, I would like to say I am sorry to all of the young women who have gone through recruitment at IU and did not get a bid. Especially to the women who didn’t have a recruitment counselor/Rho Gamma who helped them through this stressful time. (I read that a young woman, who didn’t receive a bid, was not consoled or helped by her Rho Gamma on bid night…that’s unacceptable.)

Back in my time at Panhel, rush counselors (now called Rho Gammas) were required to go through training to assist young women going through the recruitment process with a special focus on helping those women who would not receive a bid. They discussed the “numbers game” with the PNMs upfront even before the first event started so the PNMs all knew that there where more women participating than spots in sororities. Most of the PNMs made the decision to stay on with the process, but at least they were informed of the chance they were taking. Additionally, for the women who did not receive a bid, gatherings were arranged by each Rho Gamma on bid night and the women who did not receive a bid were encouraged to come to the gathering. This helped to take these fragile young women out of the screaming frenzy that the dorms became when the new members were inundated by their new “sisters.” I took my group out for pizza and bowling. In later days, I also met with each of these women one on one or in a group if they wanted to talk. Through the training provided by Panhel, I was given information about open recruitment and other campus organizations looking for new members/volunteers. Lastly, I was fortunate to have information to offer about a sorority recolonizing on campus and that information was available to any woman who went through the entire recruitment process. (On a side note, one woman came in to sign up for the recruitment process and stated that she would go through the entire process but was interested only in the recolonizing sorority. She was later the recolonized sorority’s president and helped my younger sister join her sorority when my sister was released by my sorority.)

Recruitment is tough…unfair…I won’t argue. However, it is a choice that is made, not forced. I understand some women are legacies, but parents accept your daughter for who she is and let her find her own path. Stories about your good times in a sorority are great, but can create a lot of pressure. Just be sensitive.

Regarding what should have been done years ago, the Dean of Greek Affairs and the Dean of Students, together with PHA and IFC (Interfraternity Council) sat down and put together a plan that a new or recolonizing sorority would be able to come onto campus every two years until supply and demand were more even. I’m uncertain as to why that plan failed to be carried out. (I understand the “math” for this day and age, so even if every sorority in existence were on campus, demand would still exceed supply. Having every sorority would be a start, though.) At the time I was VP of Recruitment, there were 2 sororities on campus that were housed in dorms each with plans to build a house within 5 years of coming onto campus. Both of these sororities as well as the recolonized sorority now have houses on campus. That was the deal…each sorority needed a 5 year plan to recruit, fundraise and build prior to coming onto campus. IU’s sorority system, like it or not, is bound up in being in a “house.” In fact, that’s how many people referred to a fraternity or a sorority…as a “house.” This is the culture at IU. Maybe the culture needs to change in this day and age. Additionally, maybe other opportunities on campus need to be stressed more by the administration and by us as parents. I can’t believe that sound parenting would allow a child’s self image to be defined by a single activity. But there you have it. That’s my history lesson and my opinion.

Newbie - 05/02/13 @ 2:31 pm

Mandy, and anonymous, thank you for your responses. Alum, your comments help explain the situation. Maybe there needs to be better alternatives on campus for the women that don’t get chosen. Growing up all of the women are faced with teams or groups that are selective, and you don’t always make it for whatever reason. But you move on to the next thing, and it doesn’t seem as dramatic as this.

Mandy - 05/09/13 @ 12:29 pm

Sorority Life at IU: Some things to consider. Sorority life at IU is different because everyone lives in the house (except for new freshmen and the few chapters who allow seniors to live out). I’m going to point out a few things about living in a chapter house. Everyone of them has exceptions and everyone of them has a positive side.

1) Cold dorms. Many chapters have cold dorms where everyone sleeps. The cold dorms have little or no heat and are not air conditioned. They are located on the top floor. What is great about a cold dorm is it is silent 24/7. No cell phones, iPods, alarm clocks. A sister will wake you up. If you like to fall asleep in front of the TV, forget about it. The dorm rooms have desks and dressers in them. It’s not uncommon to share a room with 3 other girls. Many girls like to put a futon in their room in case someone doesn’t want to sleep in the cold dorm. Not every house has cold dorms: some have “sleepers” (rooms with just beds in them), and a few have the traditional dorm type room. If you want a single room, well you need to be the president of the chapter. Seniors have their own wing in the house and their rooms are the nicest. The bottom line is that if you want privacy in dorm room, you won’t have it there.

2) Meals. Take a look at that dining room during the house tour because that’s where you will be eating breakfast lunch and dinner for the next three years. You can buy iBucks (minimum $500) or pay retail to eat elsewhere on campus. If you want to explore the other places to eat on campus, you will have to pay out of pocket. Also it might not be possible to eat lunch at the house and make it back in time for your next class.

3) Greek Calendar: Recruitment, Chapter Fundraiser Event, Chapter Formal, Dance Marathon, Little 500, Greek Sing are major events that you will have to attend and help organize in many cases. You are expected to look forward to these events and make an effort to ensure their success. If you think you might find another worthwhile project, you will have to fit it into the events on the Greek Calendar.

4) Pairing with a Frat. Many chapters pair with frat houses for events on campus. some feats compete to pair with some houses and that can be fun. However, if you don’t like the guys in the frat you are paired with, you are out of luck. Are there exceptions? Yes! But you will have limited time to socialize with non greek guys IMO.

5) The Chapter House. The houses are beautiful and a great source of pride for the members. They can be seen as a home away from home and much more comforting than the enormous buildings on campus. There is also some panache in living in a house because only 100 or so girls get to live there out of thousands of other girls on campus. But it is only a house and this house will be the main focus of your life at IU. There is little flexibility…you could be at a museum or in the library, but you will always have to be back at the house for a certain event.